Subject: The 13's
Name: A.J.
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 209.240.222.32
Email: AJ0716@webtv.net
Link: ././
Here we are, the final group. The creme de la creme. One thing for sure, the staff definitely knew how to end a season on a high note, none of these are bad, and most are better than some winners we've had, but only one can win. Who? I haven't a clue. I do expect this to possibly be even closer and more spread out than the 12's. Just a quick note, voting ends at 12:01am Sat. And the runoff vote for the wildcards starts 12:01am Fri. Now on with the show......
113- "The Misery Chick" A former great football player comes back to LHS for a dedication ceremony. He's a total and complete jerk who insults or propositions everyone he meets. Daria tells him off, he storms off, and gets killed by falling crates.
Everone begins to come to Daria for advice because they think she's dark, which she isn't, she just chooses not to interact with everyone, this misconception upsets OH. Jane is at odds with Daria for not appearing to care that someone died. Drifting apart, until Trent gets them together and they talk things out, Daria accepting he shouldn't have died, Jane accepting he was still a complete jerk.
A glimpse into Daria's personality. If there was any doubt where she was coming from in S1, you see it here, she is who she is and nothing will change that, classic episode, the 2nd best of S1, IMO.
Lines:
Daria: Excuse me.
Tommy: You're kidding, right? Like I'm going to talk to you, <to Jane> Now you, maybe, like 4 hours into a kegger.
Jane: Perhaps after I vomit on your shoes?
O'Neill: I'm sure you think about the dark side all the time.
Daria: The Dark Side? Are we talking about The Force?
Jane: You just made 10 bucks off that poor girls suffering.
Daria: Yeah, that was wrong.
Jane: Yeah, next time......
Daria: Twenty.
213- "Write Where It Hurts" Daria has to come up with a special assignment for English class, take people she knows and place them in a fictional story. One is a parody of the Graduate, one is set back in the 1800's, one where Daria herself is the preferred sister over Quinn. None of these suit her tastes. She seems about to give it all up having a severe case of writers block, when Helen comes through and saves the day. She says to picture things as you'd like them to be, not the way things are. She does so and comes up with a story where she is married to a college professor, Quinn has married Jamie and has 4 kids, and Helen and Jake are much more relaxed than they've ever been. Helen takes this as a loving gesture from Daria, and begins to lose self control and begins to cry.
Another excellent episode. The first where we really see Helen come through for either of her children, and we know that Daria does see hope for her family by the image we see of their future selves, so she thinks the family can better itself, a revelation for her. Even Jake's stew scenes were funny and offered a counterpoint to Daria's story and even inspired one of her failed attempts. Good work done here.
Lines:
Quinn: Oh, dear sister, may you not only marry well, but wisely.
Trent: Did she say marry?
Jesse: Yeah. <They all run off>
Daria: We should at least tell her about that 8 lane highway they built outside the house last night.
Jake: Hmmm, I think you're right. <car crashes off screen>
Quinn: Ow! God!
Jane: Do you think that someday, I can read one of your stories?
Daria: Nope, but you can read the one where you run away with Kevin.
Jane: WHAT!!!!!!????
313- "Jane's Addition" Daria and Jane have to do a multimedia project for school, they go to ask Trent to compose some music for it while he's at a gig, which he accepts. During all this Jane meets someone named Tom, goes out with him, leaving Daria by herself at the club. She gets more and more agitated when Jane starts spending more and more time with Tom than herself. The final straw is when Tom interupts "pizza time", and Daria's attitude makes Tom leave, and Daria does so soon after. Trent, meanwhile still hasn't come up with any music, and Jane is very upset because a low mark could put her status in jeapordy. Tom and Daria talk and smooth things over as Tom says Daria is all that Jane ever talks about. And Daria agrees, reluctantly, for Janes sake.
Trent fails to come up with the music. So he takes Daria out to make up for it and to explain what happened. Using many double entendre's between the project and the Crush, they're pretty much telling each other that they're not right for each other, and break away from that idea gracefully.
As someone wrote in an essay one time, this was essentially the pilot episode for what Daria had become in the 4th and 5th seasons. The first real anger shown between the partners in crime that we've seen. The petulant side of Daria comes out again, as she wants Jane all to herself again and no one can have her. Yet we also see her realize Trent for what he really is, and finally finishes off the Crush. Still a very good episode.
Lines:
Mystik Spirals "Mr. Normal" song.
Jane's attempts at singing.
Daria: I hope he hits it as a musician, because I can't think of another job he could hold down.
Tom: I don't know, you know those farmers that get paid not to grow anything?
The Daria-Trent speech in the pizza place.
413- "Dye!, Dye!, My Darling!" In a last attempt to try to keep Tom, Jane decides to try to dye her hair like tiger stripes, and asks Daria to do it for her. Their friendship is strained enough at this point, and not risking further damage, Daria agrees, even though she has no experience for any such thing, and messes it up turning it orange in various spots. Jane imediately throws Daria out, thinking she dyed her hair like that on purpose to take Tom from her. Daria does apologize as they meet again to discuss the recent goings on, Daria doesn't admit to be trying to take Tom, but admits they're better friends than when they first met.
On the way home Tom stops her and asks her a few questions. After a long series of negativity and denials, they kiss, in perhaps the most shocking moment ever in the series. Daria eventually tells Jane, who runs off and argues with Tom over what had happened. They decide to break up amicably after a heart to heart talk. Our partners in crime meet one more time to get stories straight and to take some time apart from each other, Jane very upset at the moment, Daria saddened. Leading us into IIFY?
An excellent episode all around. So many things you'd have never expected, the kiss, Helen putting a huge case aside for her daughter's troubles as of late. The tension at a fever pitch between OH's, an amazing episode that had me guessing throughout.
Lines:
Jane: The Lady or the Tiger? Now you don't have to choose.
Daria: Does this mean you'll be ordering a pizza with entrails?
....Daria: And I'd be stabbing my friend in the back for even considering it.
Tom: And what would that make you?
Daria: Exactly.
Tom: Alright then.
<they begin kissing>
Jane and Tom's scene on a swingset discussing their breaking up.
513- "Boxing Daria" A leftover refrigerator box gets back deep seated memories for Daria to come to the surface of a fight that Helen and Jake had one night when she was about 5-6, Daria runs off in Helen's SUV and offers to take up Tom's offer to the cove, on the way there she get involved in a multiple car pileup. On the way home, Daria stops off at a cafe where she asks Jane to come see her, as the person she trusts the most, Jane, comes into the picture to help straighten things out around elsewhere.
Another excellent episode. We've got Daria questioning who she is and everything she does before coming to the realization that she and her overintelligence are what helped to cause the problem they had. She finds out she is who she is, and shes just perfectly much better about everything.
Lines:
Jane: Kind of like the sound of the breeze rustling through cardboard, quite soothing, really.
Quinn: Stupid freakin' carton, hard freakin' labor, I'm only freaking human, how much can one girl take, especially an enormously freakin' popular one.
My favorite: Wow, 5 super choices, but it really only comes down to 1 thing, "The Kiss", that's right, my wimmer is 413- Dye!, Dye!,my Darling! The most shocking moment in series history, pushes this one over the top for me.
Followed by: 313- "Jane's Addition", 513- "Boxing Daria", 113- "The Misery Chick", and lastly, though only last in a group of this caliber and still an excellent ep, 213- "Write Where It Hurts"
That's it! Look for the runoff vote Fri. morning, and the announcement of the Perfect Season, on Sat. morning.
Good night, everyone.
A.J.
---------------------------------------------
Tom/Jake/Jeffy: Whoomp! There it is!, Whoomp! There it is!, Whoomp! There it is!...
---------------------------------------------
================================================================================
Subject: Re: The 13's
Name: Adam Spradlin
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 65.27.164.39
Email: Wuzzahh28488@cinci.rr.com
Link: http://www.geocities.com/sarcadam
The season finales were all good, so this was sort of difficult for me. My ultimate favorite here is Boxing Daria, the best season 5 episode and the best dramatic episode of the series, and one of my favorites, period. Eichler outdid himself here. Then Write Where it Hurts, which was my favorite episode for the longest while. Followed by Dye! Dye! My Darling, which (as A.J. so eloquently put it) was the ultimate shocker momentof the series. Then The Misery Chick, which was also excellent (and my favorite of season one) but not *quite* as good as those above. Finally Jane's Addition, which was initially disappointing and sort of odd at first, but has gotten better over time...B+ material.
I didn't sleep tonight...let's hope I can make it through tomorrow.
--Adam
================================================================================
Subject: misery chick!
Name: highjinx
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 172.149.10.127
Email: redundantjinx@hotmail.com
I'd have to go with 113 The Misery Chick.
Great lines. Jane's addition would be my number one choice if it hadn't been the episode that introduced Tom the terrible. grr. The other three i didn't really like or can't remember.
>
>Here we are, the final group. The creme de la creme. One thing for sure, the staff definitely knew how to end a season on a high note, none of these are bad, and most are better than some winners we've had, but only one can win. Who? I haven't a clue. I do expect this to possibly be even closer and more spread out than the 12's. Just a quick note, voting ends at 12:01am Sat. And the runoff vote for the wildcards starts 12:01am Fri. Now on with the show......
>
>113- "The Misery Chick" A former great football player comes back to LHS for a dedication ceremony. He's a total and complete jerk who insults or propositions everyone he meets. Daria tells him off, he storms off, and gets killed by falling crates.
>
>Everone begins to come to Daria for advice because they think she's dark, which she isn't, she just chooses not to interact with everyone, this misconception upsets OH. Jane is at odds with Daria for not appearing to care that someone died. Drifting apart, until Trent gets them together and they talk things out, Daria accepting he shouldn't have died, Jane accepting he was still a complete jerk.
>
>A glimpse into Daria's personality. If there was any doubt where she was coming from in S1, you see it here, she is who she is and nothing will change that, classic episode, the 2nd best of S1, IMO.
>
>Lines:
>
>Daria: Excuse me.
>
>Tommy: You're kidding, right? Like I'm going to talk to you, <to Jane> Now you, maybe, like 4 hours into a kegger.
>
>Jane: Perhaps after I vomit on your shoes?
>
>
>O'Neill: I'm sure you think about the dark side all the time.
>
>Daria: The Dark Side? Are we talking about The Force?
>
>
>Jane: You just made 10 bucks off that poor girls suffering.
>
>Daria: Yeah, that was wrong.
>
>Jane: Yeah, next time......
>
>Daria: Twenty.
>
>
>213- "Write Where It Hurts" Daria has to come up with a special assignment for English class, take people she knows and place them in a fictional story. One is a parody of the Graduate, one is set back in the 1800's, one where Daria herself is the preferred sister over Quinn. None of these suit her tastes. She seems about to give it all up having a severe case of writers block, when Helen comes through and saves the day. She says to picture things as you'd like them to be, not the way things are. She does so and comes up with a story where she is married to a college professor, Quinn has married Jamie and has 4 kids, and Helen and Jake are much more relaxed than they've ever been. Helen takes this as a loving gesture from Daria, and begins to lose self control and begins to cry.
>
>Another excellent episode. The first where we really see Helen come through for either of her children, and we know that Daria does see hope for her family by the image we see of their future selves, so she thinks the family can better itself, a revelation for her. Even Jake's stew scenes were funny and offered a counterpoint to Daria's story and even inspired one of her failed attempts. Good work done here.
>
>Lines:
>
>Quinn: Oh, dear sister, may you not only marry well, but wisely.
>
>Trent: Did she say marry?
>
>Jesse: Yeah. <They all run off>
>
>
>Daria: We should at least tell her about that 8 lane highway they built outside the house last night.
>
>Jake: Hmmm, I think you're right. <car crashes off screen>
>
>Quinn: Ow! God!
>
>
>Jane: Do you think that someday, I can read one of your stories?
>
>Daria: Nope, but you can read the one where you run away with Kevin.
>
>Jane: WHAT!!!!!!????
>
>
>313- "Jane's Addition" Daria and Jane have to do a multimedia project for school, they go to ask Trent to compose some music for it while he's at a gig, which he accepts. During all this Jane meets someone named Tom, goes out with him, leaving Daria by herself at the club. She gets more and more agitated when Jane starts spending more and more time with Tom than herself. The final straw is when Tom interupts "pizza time", and Daria's attitude makes Tom leave, and Daria does so soon after. Trent, meanwhile still hasn't come up with any music, and Jane is very upset because a low mark could put her status in jeapordy. Tom and Daria talk and smooth things over as Tom says Daria is all that Jane ever talks about. And Daria agrees, reluctantly, for Janes sake.
>
>Trent fails to come up with the music. So he takes Daria out to make up for it and to explain what happened. Using many double entendre's between the project and the Crush, they're pretty much telling each other that they're not right for each other, and break away from that idea gracefully.
>
>As someone wrote in an essay one time, this was essentially the pilot episode for what Daria had become in the 4th and 5th seasons. The first real anger shown between the partners in crime that we've seen. The petulant side of Daria comes out again, as she wants Jane all to herself again and no one can have her. Yet we also see her realize Trent for what he really is, and finally finishes off the Crush. Still a very good episode.
>
>Lines:
>
>Mystik Spirals "Mr. Normal" song.
>
>Jane's attempts at singing.
>
>
>Daria: I hope he hits it as a musician, because I can't think of another job he could hold down.
>
>Tom: I don't know, you know those farmers that get paid not to grow anything?
>
>The Daria-Trent speech in the pizza place.
>
>
>413- "Dye!, Dye!, My Darling!" In a last attempt to try to keep Tom, Jane decides to try to dye her hair like tiger stripes, and asks Daria to do it for her. Their friendship is strained enough at this point, and not risking further damage, Daria agrees, even though she has no experience for any such thing, and messes it up turning it orange in various spots. Jane imediately throws Daria out, thinking she dyed her hair like that on purpose to take Tom from her. Daria does apologize as they meet again to discuss the recent goings on, Daria doesn't admit to be trying to take Tom, but admits they're better friends than when they first met.
>
>On the way home Tom stops her and asks her a few questions. After a long series of negativity and denials, they kiss, in perhaps the most shocking moment ever in the series. Daria eventually tells Jane, who runs off and argues with Tom over what had happened. They decide to break up amicably after a heart to heart talk. Our partners in crime meet one more time to get stories straight and to take some time apart from each other, Jane very upset at the moment, Daria saddened. Leading us into IIFY?
>
>An excellent episode all around. So many things you'd have never expected, the kiss, Helen putting a huge case aside for her daughter's troubles as of late. The tension at a fever pitch between OH's, an amazing episode that had me guessing throughout.
>
>Lines:
>
>Jane: The Lady or the Tiger? Now you don't have to choose.
>
>Daria: Does this mean you'll be ordering a pizza with entrails?
>
>
>....Daria: And I'd be stabbing my friend in the back for even considering it.
>
>Tom: And what would that make you?
>
>Daria: Exactly.
>
>Tom: Alright then.
><they begin kissing>
>
>
>Jane and Tom's scene on a swingset discussing their breaking up.
>
>
>513- "Boxing Daria" a leftover refrigerator box gets back
>deep seated memories for Daria to come to the surface of a fight that Helen and Jake had one night when she was about 5-6, Daria runs off in Helen's SUV and offers to take up Tom's offer to the cove, on the way there she get involved in a multiple car pileup. On the way home, Daria stops off at a cafe where she asks Jane to come see her, as the person she trusts the most, Jane, comes into the picture to help straighten things out around elsewhere.
>
>Another excellent episode. We've got Daria questioning who she is and everything she does before coming to the realization that she and her overintelligence are what helped to cause the problem they had. She finds out she is who she is, and shes just perfectly much better about everything.
>
>Lines:
>Jane: Kind of like the sound of the breeze rustling through cardboard, quite soothing, really.
>
>Quinn: Stupid freakin' carton, hard freakin' labor, I'm only freaking human, how much can one girl take, especially an enormously freakin' popular one.
>
>
>My favorite: Wow, 5 super choices, but it really only comes down to 1 thing, "The Kiss", that's right, my wimmer is 413- Dye!, Dye!,my Darling! The most shocking moment in series history, pushes this one over the top for me.
>
>Followed by: 313- "Jane's Addition", 513- "Boxing Daria", 113- "The Misery Chick", and lastly, though only last in a group of this caliber and still an excellent ep, 213- "Write Where It Hurts"
>
>That's it! Look for the runoff vote Fri. morning, and the announcement of the Perfect Season, on Sat. morning.
>
>Good night, everyone.
>
>A.J.
>
>---------------------------------------------
>Tom/Jake/Jeffy: Whoomp! There it is!, Whoomp! There it is!, Whoomp! There it is!...
>---------------------------------------------
>
================================================================================
Subject: Re: The 13's
Name: Robert Nowall
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 152.163.204.179
Email: RobtNowall@aol.com
Man, this is going to be tough. All of them great episodes. All of them important to the future of the series. What to decide, what to decide?
>113- "The Misery Chick"
A. k. a. "The Death of Tommy Sherman." Considerable revelation about Daria's standings with her associates and their opinion of her. Character revelations and learned lessons abound. A top episode, for me probably the best of Season One.
>213- "Write Where It Hurts"
More character revelation. And we learn something of what Daria would like out of life.
The downside being that we learn that, deep down, Daria may just be an ordinary teenager afterall. I'd put this last, for that, and for the Jane Austen parody..."last" only in relation to the other 13's not the series as a whole...
>313- "Jane's Addition
The fulcrum on which the series rests: the Jump-the-Shark point for some, but certainly the basis for all that came after.
More character revelations abound. We meet Tom for the first time. We learn that Trent is, once and for all, a slacker. We learn that Daria-and-Jane are not an indivisible unit, that their friendship can be shaken if not broken.
>413- "Dye!, Dye!, My Darling!"
Another fulcrum. We remove Daria from the "never been kissed" category. We learn that Daria, Jane, and Tom can behave in ways as petty and obnoxious as anybody. We learn that Daria can be honest, even though that honesty risks her friendship with Jane. We learn, to our surpise, that Helen *will* make time for Daria.
*And* we learn that Daria *may* embark on a relationship with Tom. We don't actually see it start beyond The Kiss (perhaps the major flaw in the series), but that relationship has begun by the time "Is It Fall Yet?" opens.
>513- "Boxing Daria"
Since only the yet-to-premiere movie remains beyond this point (unless MTV decides it wants more "Daria" somewhere down the road deep in an unforeseeable future...hope, hope...), we can't be sure how much events in this will effect events in Daria's life.
But we see that Daria realizes much of her own life as "the misery chick" is of her own doing. *And* we find that her friendship with Jane is stronger than ever.
As for the votes, I have to put
313 "Jane's Addition"
on top, followed closely, very closely, by
113 "The Misery Chick"
413 "Dye! Dye! My Darling!"
513 "Boxing Daria"
and
213 "Write Where It Hurts"
in the rear. There *are* no weaker episodes among these...all fill important parts in the Mythology of Daria...and it's near impossible to say any are *better* than any others.
Now that that's done, when "Is It College Yet?" runs, let's get together and decide which one of the movies is better...
================================================================================
Subject: Re: The 13's
Name: A.J.
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 209.240.222.132
Email: AJ0716@webtv.net
Link: ././
>Now that that's done, when "Is It College Yet?" runs, let's get together and decide which one of the movies is better...
We're not done yet, after a wildcard vote for non winners, we'll vote the best of each season from the winners in the first groups, and lastly from those winners, we'll pick the best ep of the series. We'll be going on this right up to IICY, and then we do plan on comparing the movies as well.
A.J.
---------------------------------------------
Tom/Jake/Jeffy: Whoomp! There it is!, Whoomp! There it is!, Whoomp! There it is!...
---------------------------------------------
================================================================================
Subject: IICY had better not suck.
Name: um
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 64.12.102.33
Email: umeruh0000@aol.com
Link: http://www.geocities.com/dvdaria
How it could suck:
Rushed writing.
Low budget, not enough voice talent, cheaped-out animation, generic music.
Saccarine happy ending.
Um
-
DVDaria! The Web's finest "exquisitely worded angry petition"! www.geocities.com/DVDaria
================================================================================
Subject: Re: IICY had better not suck.
Name: Kara Wild
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 206.170.217.214
Email: kara_wild@hotmail.com
Link: http://www.the-wildone.com/index.html
>How it could suck:
>
>Rushed writing.
>
>Low budget, not enough voice talent, cheaped-out animation, generic music.
>
>Saccarine happy ending.
Daria and Tom go to the same college. Noooooooooo!
Daria, Brittany, and Kevin go to the same college. Double no.
--------------
"But there's something out there. Something stupid."
Daria, "The Lawndale File"
================================================================================
Subject: Re: IICY had better not suck.
Name: Shallow15
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 209.63.28.12
>Daria, Brittany, and Kevin go to the same college. Double no.
>
*Coughs slightly and shoves "The Daria Chronicles" discreetly out of sight.*
---Erin M.
---
Witty closing remarks have been replaced by massive head trauma and severe hemmoraging.
================================================================================
Subject: Oops. ; >
Name: Kara Wild
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 206.170.217.214
Email: kara_wild@hotmail.com
Link: http://www.the-wildone.com/index.html
(No text)
================================================================================
Subject: Here comes the misery... (yeah, yeah)
Name: Caira
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 144.137.193.64
Email: caira@graffiti.net
Link: http://rancour84.tripod.com/
>113- "The Misery Chick" A former great football player comes back to LHS for a dedication ceremony. He's a total and complete jerk who insults or propositions everyone he meets. Daria tells him off, he storms off, and gets killed by falling crates.
"Tommy Sherman's dead! He's dead!" Anyone else thinking Wizard of Oz shortly after the first tornado here? The first time I saw this episode, I completely did not get it, largely because I was young, stupid and expecting them to play ol' Tommy's death exclusively for laughs. Thank the gods they didn't. Got better with every viewing thereafter.
>A glimpse into Daria's personality. If there was any doubt where she was coming from in S1, you see it here, she is who she is and nothing will change that...
True, but also note the Tennyson discussion and the fact that this is the first episode where D&J really argue over anything. In hindsight, this had the first signs of actual char-dev in the series. (I was going to say continuity but that's something that we really didn't see much of. Ever.)
>213- "Write Where It Hurts"
This should have been spread over more than one episode. Yeah, yeah, touching Helen-Daria moment, yada, yada, but it's in the same episode as Daria chewing off Helen like we haven't seen her since The Lab Brat. Not *bad*, even in this company, but sorry, folks, I'm not buying.
>313- "Jane's Addition"
Plot weaknesses (why did the project need music? Why did it have to be original?) and of course we have the roots of the Daria/Tom romance. Heh. That, and neither subplot did anything for me.
>413- "Dye! Dye! My Darling!"
Shut your eyes and you can pretend that Glenn's guest-writing on Dawson's Creek. Well, at least it's all consistent plot-wise. Inspired some fanfic I'll never have time to write. There *were* some jokes in here, weren't there?
>513- "Boxing Daria"
What WWIH should have been. Best char-dev ep ever. Rocks from start to finish. And lost more mindless praise with no specific justification. Get the point? Plus great Mike Y. fanfic.
All up: 113/513 tie, 213, followed distantly by 413 and 313.
"If you do not want to be the martyred slaves of Time, get drunk, always get drunk! With wine, with poetry, or with being good. As you please."
Charles Baudelaire
================================================================================
Subject: Re: The 13's
Name: Dennis
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 24.60.147.22
Email: den@monger.net
113: "The Misery Chick"
The very first episode of "Daria" I ever saw. I made a point
of watching again. Death done with a light touch. Tommy is
impressively assinine, and Daria letting him have it (*before*
the goalpost lets him have it) is cool.
It's also the first conflict between Daria and Jane, and (though
it's not made explicit) likely the first time Daria realizes
how much she depends on Jane. Trent also has a nice moment here.
Seeing Daria interact with the other students on a level other
than, "Oh, look, the idiots," is interesting.
213: "Write Where It Hurts"
Again inspired. The various "story flashbacks" range from
clever (Kevin and Jane in _The Graduate_) to oughtright hysterical
(Helen and Jake taking turns as the witches and MacBeth). This
episode probably gives us a better idea of Helen and Daria's
relationship and how they see each other than the entire rest of
the series put together.
The last story is, of course, sweet and charming, but Helen's
reaction and Daria's subsequent horror is priceless.
(Helen, crying, hugs Daria.)
Daria: Stop! Stop! This isn't a story, this is real life!
313: "Jane's Addition"
Right off, I'll say, "Jane's Addition" isn't as good as the other
four. This isn't much of a criticism, however, as it is still
a really good episode. All the elements fit well, and if Daria's
behavior is less than stellar, well, she has some reason. As,
later on, does Jane.
Tom shows an immense amount of forebearance here (foreshadowing
Season 5), and Trent's experiements with his synthesizer were
hysterical. (How come we never got to hear the all-plumbing
version of "Oh! Susannah"?) And it had the requisite happy
but bittersweet ending, as Daria and Jane remain friends, but
The Crush receives a terminal wound.
413: "Dye! Dye! My Darling"
This is not your parents "Daria." For one thing, it's not funny.
At all. Even the natural sarcasm of the characters is used more
to shock than amuse. (I think Quinn has the only funny line.)
This does not detract from it being a fine episode. Some people
don't like the "triangle," finding it "Dawson's Creek"-ish or
overdone, but I think it works. The key is, you get to do it once,
not every other week, so do it right. The "Daria" staff did, and
it feels real. Life *is* really like that sometimes, and watching
Daria, Jane, and Tom cope with "the kiss" and it's aftermath makes
for fine dramatic television.
And Daria and Helen get a nice scene together, as do Trent and
Jane.
513: "Boxing Daria"
This episode is weird. It's also very revealing and again less
humorous than it might be. Quinn is a highlight. ("How much can
one freakin' girl take, even an enormously freakin' popular one?")
That said, it's a very important episode. We learn why Daria
doesn't trust anyone, even as Daria learns that she *can* trust
people, especially Jane.
Jake, for once, says the right thing, and Daria and Jane's tour
at the end of the show is classic. ("My colleague, of course, is
just kidding. They've all been peed in."
Decisions, decisions. Well, I've already eliminated Jane's
Addition, and I think "Boxing Daria" isn't quite as good as the
other three. I'm essentially picking at random among the other
three, so be aware that if we ever revote this will probably
change. I forsee a lot of split ballots.
"Dye! Dye! My Darling"
"The Misery Chick"
"Write Where it Hurts"
"Boxing Daria"
"Jane's Addition"
-Dennis
================================================================================
Subject: Re: The 13's
Name: D. T. Dey
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 158.252.76.217
Email: ddey65@yahoo.com
>
>Here we are, the final group. The creme de la creme. One thing for sure, the staff definitely knew how to end a season on a high note, none of these are bad, and most are better than some winners we've had, but only one can win. Who? I haven't a clue. I do expect this to possibly be even closer and more spread out than the 12's. Just a quick note, voting ends at 12:01am Sat. And the runoff vote for the wildcards starts 12:01am Fri. Now on with the show......
>
Before I lay my votes down, let me remind all of you of an observation about the 13's: They're always the most emotional for OH.
1)#213: Write Where it Hurts & #513: Boxing Daria(still tied).
3)#113: The Misery Chick.
4)#413: Dye! Dye! My Darling(I hate to seem like a Tom-basher, because I'm really not. What are you looking at me like that for?).
5)#313: Jane's Addition(The end of the crush).
I'll say more about this because I really want to, but not right now.
---------------------------------------------------
My boots send a clear message: "I can kick you."
---Daria Morgendorffer in an interview with
Women’s Wear Daily, June 1998.
---------------------------------------------------
================================================================================
Subject: Eeny, meeny, miney, moe.
Name: Shoebleu
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 172.153.156.232
Email: shoebleunmy@aol.com
Link: http://members.aol.com/shoebleunmy/daria/
I'm gonna vote, quick, before I think about it too hard and can't make a decision at all.
Two-way tie between "Write Where It Hurts" and "Boxing Daria." Both are definitely among my favorites, WWIH because of the scenes from Daria's attempted stories (possible evidence that Daria's serious about writing as a future career), and "Boxing Daria" because, even though it's the last regular episode, it reveals new information about OH. They could have used 513 for looking back over the show, or ended on a sanguine note where nothing really happens, but they didn't.
In this case, I'm ruling out the episodes I like less, for really trivial reasons: 113 because I'm opposed to football, 313 because Daria's a selfish brat, and 413 because of the cliffhanger ending.
"i know i can't be the only whatever-i-am in the room"
================================================================================
Subject: Re: Eeny, meeny, miney, moe.
Name: RedlegRick
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 205.188.192.182
Email: RedlegRick@aol.com
M'kay, people. Tough one, coldly and unemotionally,1- Dye, Dye, My Darling: Yeah,it wasn't funny, but it still was one of the greatest eps ever, just because it's a cartoon doesn't mean it has to have non-stop gags,or running commentary on others stupidity.
2-Jane's Addition- paradoxes rule!Technically, IMHO this and DDMD are solid ties, especially with the Daria-Trent scenes(weep for the 'shippers)followed by:
3-The Misery Chick- I stil can watch this and enjoy it, for no other reason that this ep made me OK with the fact B&B were cancelled(And the fact I was recovering from massive back surgery,MTV screwed up the schedule, and my remote died, forcing me to watch this ep,and "Quinn the Brain" against my will)
4-"Write Where It Hurts and 5- "Boxing Daria" share even billing in my head, Both great eps, but WWIH showed some weaknesses in writing and since I knew BD was the final ep, it sort of ruined it for me.
>I'm gonna vote, quick, before I think about it too hard and can't make a decision at all.
>
>Two-way tie between "Write Where It Hurts" and "Boxing Daria." Both are definitely among my favorites, WWIH because of the scenes from Daria's attempted stories (possible evidence that Daria's serious about writing as a future career), and "Boxing Daria" because, even though it's the last regular episode, it reveals new information about OH. They could have used 513 for looking back over the show, or ended on a sanguine note where nothing really happens, but they didn't.
>
>In this case, I'm ruling out the episodes I like less, for really trivial reasons: 113 because I'm opposed to football, 313 because Daria's a selfish brat, and 413 because of the cliffhanger ending.
>
>
>"i know i can't be the only whatever-i-am in the room"
================================================================================
Subject: Re: The 13's
Name: Kara Wild
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 64.236.243.243
Email: kara_wild@hotmail.com
Link: http://www.the-wildone.com/index.html
I'm gonna help rescue 213 from the cellar by listing it as my #1. It's the true turning point for Daria, away from pure cynicism toward a greater understanding of her vulnerabilities and more tolerance of her family's. And it's done in a touching, unforced, melodrama-free manner. Note to Caira: IMO, the bonding between Daria and Helen wasn't limited to this episode: it started in "Arts N Crass" and was felt in other Season Two episodes, like "Monster."
2) 513: A great, touching way to end the series.
3) 413: Daria/Jane tension was deliciously thick. That's what made the episode watchable, in spite of The Kiss that made "Daria" jump the shark (even though I continued to watch it and love it best of all the shows on TV).
4) 113: For whatever reason, I'm not a big fan of this episode the way a lot of other people are. To me it felt slow and kind of dull. Still, the theme of lionizing people just because they're dead was one worth exploring, and Daria utters this classic line: "But I'm *not* miserable. I'm just not like them."
5) 313: So much of this episode felt forced. Daria's anger toward Jane was understandable, but I would have expected it to be preceded by a period of unease, like "Oh great. Jane's met a guy. Now what?" Instead, it was a quick explosion of resentment. Sheesh, Daria: Jane never acted that way about you and Ted! The Trent thing felt forced too, but at least it ended The Crush for good.
--------------
"But there's something out there. Something stupid."
Daria, "The Lawndale File"
================================================================================
Subject: Re: The 13's
Name: Caira
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 144.137.193.64
Email: caira@graffiti.net
Link: http://rancour84.tripod.com/
>Note to Caira: IMO, the bonding between Daria and Helen wasn't limited to this episode: it started in "Arts N Crass" and was felt in other Season Two episodes, like "Monster."
Happily conceded --- I still think the buildup could have been done better, and An'C struck me more as a tiger conveniently falling into the path of a shark, but that doesn't apply to "Monster" or "Ill", say --- but WWIH *specifically* moved too quickly for me to really believe what was happening. Even a "two weeks later" screen after Act Two would have helped. Maybe my experiences're weird, but I can't see anyone getting over that kind of big fight so fast.
"If you do not want to be the martyred slaves of Time, get drunk, always get drunk! With wine, with poetry, or with being good. As you please."
Charles Baudelaire
================================================================================
Subject: Re: The 13's
Name: Steven Galloway
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 205.188.192.28
Email: SGall23241@aol.com
>I'm gonna help rescue 213 from the cellar by listing it as my #1. It's the true turning point for Daria, away from pure cynicism toward a greater understanding of her vulnerabilities and more tolerance of her family's. And it's done in a touching, unforced, melodrama-free manner. Note to Caira: IMO, the bonding between Daria and Helen wasn't limited to this episode: it started in "Arts N Crass" and was felt in other Season Two episodes, like "Monster."
Egad! I concur, Kara! In fact, I think #213 was the *best* 'Daria' ep up to that time, and after seeing all the eps, I still see that now, though this batch was (to me, at least) the toughest to compare of all the numbers. I also think "WWIH" was the beginning of the transformation of Daria, bringing her out of her shell, sort to speak. This carried into "TALD" the following season.
>
>2) 513: A great, touching way to end the series.
Egad again! Right behind #213. Eps that help explain Daria's psyche are the ones to me that really stand out
>
>3) 413: Daria/Jane tension was deliciously thick. That's what made the episode watchable, in spite of The Kiss that made "Daria" jump the shark (even though I continued to watch it and love it best of all the shows on TV).
Uh-huh, I agree yet again, though perhaps I dunno if "The Kiss" made 'Daria' jump the shark...
>
>4) 113: For whatever reason, I'm not a big fan of this episode the way a lot of other people are. To me it felt slow and kind of dull. Still, the theme of lionizing people just because they're dead was one worth exploring, and Daria utters this classic line: "But I'm *not* miserable. I'm just not like them."
Now see, this is a great ep because this was the first time we saw Daria and Jane *not* get along swimmingly. Did anybody catch Jane's brief little annoyed facial expressions with Daria when Jane heard Daria speaking about how everyone was building up Sherman (or Sheridan?) after he croaked? It was a nice, slick touch on the writer's part, very sneaky.
>
>5) 313: So much of this episode felt forced. Daria's anger toward Jane was understandable, but I would have expected it to be preceded by a period of unease, like "Oh great. Jane's met a guy. Now what?" Instead, it was a quick explosion of resentment. Sheesh, Daria: Jane never acted that way about you and Ted! The Trent thing felt forced too, but at least it ended The Crush for good.
Hm--I wonder if *this* was the ultimate anti-shipper ep, the antithesis of "Road Worrier"?
Thanks.
>
>--------------
>"But there's something out there. Something stupid."
>Daria, "The Lawndale File"
Yes. You caught a glimpse of Kevin.
Steven, this post
================================================================================
Subject: Re: The 13's
Name: Kara Wild
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 206.170.217.214
Email: kara_wild@hotmail.com
Link: http://www.the-wildone.com/index.html
>>3) 413: Daria/Jane tension was deliciously thick. That's what made the episode watchable, in spite of The Kiss that made "Daria" jump the shark (even though I continued to watch it and love it best of all the shows on TV).
>
>Uh-huh, I agree yet again, though perhaps I dunno if "The Kiss" made 'Daria' jump the shark...
That's based on personal opinion. Some others think it's the beginning of the "Daria the Bad Puppy" episodes, though you could see some of those as early as 401. For me, it made "Daria" jump the shark for two reasons:
1) It seemed like the first time the "Daria" writers bowed to convention. (Yes there was The Crush, but that was different, given that it ended in S3 instead of getting dragged out, leading to Trent and Daria dating.) The writers had done a great job of exploring the growing pains of an a-typical teenager; it would have been nice to see "The Boyfriend" situation handled in a non typical (for TV) way. Suppose Daria had to deal with Tom and Jane for more than a season, and eventually become a mutual friend of Tom's without being his love interest?
2) It sucked some life out of a lot of S5 episodes. Tom just isn't Jane. He's nice, supportive, somewhat witty, but he doesn't have chemistry with Daria that compares to the friend chemistry with Jane, and that shows. Daria alone holds my interest more than Daria with Tom.
To me, a love triangle is the same as those situations on TV where a man and woman live together happily, only to be pulled apart by his or her sudden, ill-advised affair with a co-worker, friend, or former enemy (with whom he or she happens to have unbelievable chemistry). Does that happen in real life? Sure. Does it happen to *everybody*, as TV would have you believe? No.
--------------
"But there's something out there. Something stupid."
Daria, "The Lawndale File"
================================================================================
Subject: Re: The 13's
Name: sam
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 24.56.199.168
Email: samlincoln@mac.com
Link: http://www.cosmic-hippo.org
>To me, a love triangle is the same as those situations on TV where a man and woman live together happily, only to be pulled apart by his or her sudden, ill-advised affair with a co-worker, friend, or former enemy (with whom he or she happens to have unbelievable chemistry). Does that happen in real life? Sure. Does it happen to *everybody*, as TV would have you believe? No.
I dunno, when you consider the fact that *I've* been involved in a love triangle maybe, just maybe, it is more common to the human condition than we might think...though i didn't really know I was in the triangle at the time...but anyway....
Beyond that, I dunno, I've got a sneaking suspicion that the writers never intended the show to go past high school and I think they wanted to tackle the "Daria has a boyfriend" angle for probably the same reaon Bartlett has MS, it makes for good storytelling. Which lead them into a quandery, who? Up to the introduction of Tom the only male character with a brain was Mack and he's out because you're back at triangle. I guess the question becomes, to what end was Tom introduced? Was he originally created to rift Daria and Jane as Jane's boyfriend, or as the object of Daria's affection? Because i think it's clear that the only reason he was introduced was to rift Daria and Jane, again because it makes for good storytelling. You almost wonder if maybe they hit on the idea of the "Triangle" late in the development of the season, which could explain the lack of build-up. The look-back in parade simply being something thrown in at the "last moment." Who knows, well we know who knows, but will they share? Or have they and am I just talking out of my ass?
-sam, i "won" if anybody's curious, though in the end "lost" but it's all good I've got Flecktones. :)
"When all else has been done and said, along comes Mr. Oysterhead."
================================================================================
Subject: Re: The 13's
Name: um
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 64.12.102.33
Email: umeruh0000@aol.com
Link: http://www.geocities.com/dvdaria
>Tom just isn't Jane. He's nice, supportive, somewhat witty, but he doesn't have chemistry with Daria that compares to the friend chemistry with Jane, and that shows. Daria alone holds my interest more than Daria with Tom.
Best S5 episodes:
Fat Like Me: Tom does not appear, IIRC
Lucky Strike: Tom does not appear
Boxing Daria: Tom sent away, comes whining back at the end
Um
-
DVDaria! The Web's finest "exquisitely worded angry petition"! www.geocities.com/DVDaria
================================================================================
Subject: Tom WAS in "Lucky Strike."
Name: D. T. Dey
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 158.252.76.244
Email: ddey65@yahoo.com
>
>Best S5 episodes:
>
>Fat Like Me: Tom does not appear, IIRC
>
>Lucky Strike: Tom does not appear
>
Doesn't appear? Do I have to post the scene for you? Never mind, I'll do it anyway.
(at the Morgendorffer house)
(Daria and Tom are in her room, brainstorming over the test)
Tom - Hey, how about asking them this: "If Verona had had metal detectors, would Mercutio be alive today?"
Daria - If he were, he'd be about 400 years old.
Tom - That's why they'll all get it wrong. Trick question, yeah!
Daria - Gee, I wonder why no one's ever asked you to teach a class.
(Quinn enters the room)
Quinn - (in speed-rant mode) Daria, you know the test tomorrow? It's going to be easy, right? Because if you make it really hard, some popular people won't like it and might take it out on another completely innocent popular person, and besides, it's good to help the popular, because if you don't, it might make you even more unpopular, although I don't know if such a thing is possible.
Daria - Ooh, wouldn't want to risk that.
Quinn - So you'll do it?
Daria - Right after I change into my fur bikini. (Tom smiles at this)
Quinn - Daria!
Daria - You know, I didn't ask for this stupid teaching job. I don't need the work and I don't need the stigma. I've tried to make the class interesting and focus on the play, not the grades. And if, after all that, the only thing your vapid friends can think about is how to finesse taking the test, then they deserve to fail it.
Quinn - Daria, do you want everyone to hate you?
Daria - Hey, why should you go out of your way to protect the stupid? You're not one of them!
Quinn - I... I... you don't understand anything! (storms out of the room)
Tom - Hmm, maybe you should make it easy. Give the poor kids a break.
Daria - I lied about the fur bikini.
Tom - (fake anger) Damn!
>Boxing Daria: Tom sent away, comes whining back at the end
>
>
..and making up his own version of Daria's freeway mishap.
---------------------------------------------------
My boots send a clear message: "I can kick you."
---Daria Morgendorffer in an interview with
Women’s Wear Daily, June 1998.
---------------------------------------------------
================================================================================
Subject: Oh, crap...
Name: um
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 64.12.102.33
Email: umeruh0000@aol.com
Link: http://www.geocities.com/dvdaria
how could I forget the fur bikini? But I'll spin it by pointing out that he did little of substance, and to the good.
Um
-
DVDaria! The Web's finest "exquisitely worded angry petition"! www.geocities.com/DVDaria
================================================================================
Subject: Re: Oh, crap...
Name: sam
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 24.56.199.168
Email: samlincoln@mac.com
Link: http://www.cosmic-hippo.org
>how could I forget the fur bikini? But I'll spin it by pointing out that he did little of substance, and to the good.
>
>
ya know i've got nothing but..er love for Tom, mostly becuase he's the character I most identify with...once you get past the rich part. :) Shame he didn't get built up a little more...but that's what fan-fic is for. :)
-sam, oh to be Prince Caspian, with nothing to return to but the demons in their caves.
"When all else has been done and said, along comes Mr. Oysterhead."
================================================================================
Subject: Re: Oh, crap...
Name: wyvern337
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 152.163.195.203
Email: wyvern337@surrealestate.com
>
>
>>how could I forget the fur bikini? But I'll spin it by pointing out that he did little of substance, and to the good.
>>
>>
>
>ya know i've got nothing but..er love for Tom, mostly becuase he's the character I most identify with...once you get past the rich part. :) Shame he didn't get built up a little more...but that's what fan-fic is for. :)
y'know, Tom's kinda grown on me (not too unlike a Malasian toenail fungus)...
I'd plug certain fics @ this point, but I don't do that here anymore:>....
Only problem I still have w/the character?
THE TRIANGLE:
Daria: suffered. terribly.
Jane: suffered. horribly.
Tom: we more-or-less *infer* he kinda feels sorta guilty, off & on, or something...boy's got some serious karmic issues, there.....IICY- fodder, or will it be up to the fic writers?
--wyvern
(09.01.02/22.43PST)
>
>-sam, oh to be Prince Caspian, with nothing to return to but the demons in their caves.
>"When all else has been done and said, along comes Mr. Oysterhead."
FRANK ACNE, SR.: You'd risk your life for a hundred pounds?
HEMLOCK STONES: I'd risk anyone's life for a hundred pounds -- of DOLLARS!
--Firesign Theatre,_The Tale of the Giant Rat of Sumatra_
================================================================================
Subject: Re: The 13's
Name: um
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 166.90.234.252
Email: umeruh0000@aol.com
Link: ././
A four-way tie wouldn't do, of course. One must decide, and I use ties to keep worthy episodes out of the cellar. Any of these five episodes are wonderful television, required viewing for all interested in Daria.
As others have said: Before there is time for regret, I vote.
First: 513- "Boxing Daria"
Others think that reaching back across the seasons to reference events from "Esteemsters" and other episodes is a gimmick. I find the closing of the circle, and explanation of "How Daria got that way" to be masterful. Smarter, better writers than me have made it clear that we are, in the end, nothing but memory, little but the result of events shaping our past. Glenn Eichler's genius lies in creating what seems to be a cardboard-cutout character, then pumping her full of so full of life that one can't help but empathise.
There's more...what is the line between preserving personal integrity and participating in family, society? Is rigidity a virtue? There are no simple answers, especially if one is sensitive and has suffered from being different. Is Daria strong, or weak? Is there more to life than outwitting annoying people and avoiding contact? Is that true strength?
If I let "them" in, will they destroy me?
Is it okay to hug?
Tom wasn't there to attempt to fix it. Jane wasn't there to run interference -- but she was there when it counted. Helen and Jake turned out to be part of the solution, instead of the problem. IN fact, everyone in MTV's supposed target audience -- and everyone else -- needs to hear this truth: With extreme exceptions, parents who seem like brutal, uncaring, clueless dolts during one's adolesence will inevitably turn out to be flawed but loving schmucks who are doing their best. And Quinn, with a caring gesture, cemented what will be a beautiful friendship.
Daria's going to be okay, and that makes me happy. Watch it again.
Second: 213- "Write Where It Hurts"
If I believed in tying, this would be tied with Boxing Daria, and there is of course a direct, thematic line tying the two together. Now, was Daria's final story wishful thinking, or simply a cold, calculated way to fit in all of O'Neill's ridiculous story elements? You know the truth. Still too defended to admit it, her subconscious said it for her, which is the place from where the _real_ writing comes.
Why second? The fantasies were okay, but a little too jokey. Of course, others will complain that it wasn't funny enough. There's also the contrivances of idiot O'Neill. But none of this is enough to kill a great episode.
Daria, the series, couldn't have been like this all the time...despite their crappiness, "Just Add Water" and "Murder, She Snored" have their place -- hot air and yeast, leavening the loaf. But the series is best, and worth all this bother, when something like "Write Where it Hurts" arrives.
Third: 413- "Dye!, Dye!, My Darling!"
That this episode screws with your little head, expectations about the characters, and the core of the lead character's psyche -- personal integrity -- so well, and STILL comes in third in this grouping speaks to the power of the writing in this series.
I think there ought to be special mention for the entire ILAP, F!, D!D!MD and IIFY tetralogy. When they decide to do a story arc, the Daria crew don't screw around. Sure, a love triangle isn't original, and smacks of Dawson's Creek -- but the difference is, Dawson's Creek sucks. Shakespeare stole every plot he used in his plays from somebody, and what of it?
If you can suspend your distaste and accept Daria's involuntary actions and the existance of real romance in Our Heroine's life, you'll really enjoy this. Or, you want everything to remain the same in the series, including Daria. If so, you may want to check out the collected works of Hanna-Barbera. I hear Scooby-Doo is nice.
>313- "Jane's Addition"
Gotta go with the Bratty Daria excuse for not liking this one as much as others in this group. It makes sense, but it's hard to take. I also didn't like Jane going off with some strange boy...makes sense, but its a crummy message.
It's an awkward episode -- not bad in any sense, but jarring. As it must be, since we're killing the Daria/Trent crush and starting the Age of Tom in the same 22 minutes. Sometimes, you wonder how they made plot/story-arc decisions. It probably had something to do with not knowing if the series would be renewed. If true, then they did a better job than one might expect.
>113- "The Misery Chick"
A.J. states that this is the episode that explains Early Daria. It's also the episode where, through introspection, Early Daria starts to transmogrify -- in fits and starts, over the subsequent 4 seasons and movie -- into the Daria of Boxing Daria. I mean, being the Misery Chick must get really old after a while. Why is this last in the group? Too much Kevin. I can be petty, too.
This has been fun, and it ain't over yet.
Um
-
DVDaria! The Web's finest "exquisitely worded angry petition"! www.geocities.com/DVDaria
================================================================================
Subject: now, y'see...
Name: wyvern337
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 205.188.192.48
Email: wyvern337@surrealestate.com
>
>First: 513- "Boxing Daria"
>
>Others think that reaching back across the seasons to reference events from "Esteemsters" and other episodes is a gimmick. I find the closing of the circle, and explanation of "How Daria got that way" to be masterful. Smarter, better writers than me have made it clear that we are, in the end, nothing but memory, little but the result of events shaping our past. Glenn Eichler's genius lies in creating what seems to be a cardboard-cutout character, then pumping her full of so full of life that one can't help but empathise.
>
>There's more...what is the line between preserving personal integrity and participating in family, society? Is rigidity a virtue? There are no simple answers, especially if one is sensitive and has suffered from being different. Is Daria strong, or weak? Is there more to life than outwitting annoying people and avoiding contact? Is that true strength?
no simple answers? s'far's I can see, all those questions're strictly rhetorical (like,watch most *other* later _Daria_ episodes), most of them represent false dichotomies, and ohnevermindigiveup......
feh;)
--wyvern
(09.01.02/19.12PST)
>
>If I let "them" in, will they destroy me?
>
>Is it okay to hug?
>
>Tom wasn't there to attempt to fix it. Jane wasn't there to run interference -- but she was there when it counted. Helen and Jake turned out to be part of the solution, instead of the problem. IN fact, everyone in MTV's supposed target audience -- and everyone else -- needs to hear this truth: With extreme exceptions, parents who seem like brutal, uncaring, clueless dolts during one's adolesence will inevitably turn out to be flawed but loving schmucks who are doing their best. And Quinn, with a caring gesture, cemented what will be a beautiful friendship.
>
>Daria's going to be okay,
and that makes me happy. Watch it again.
>
>
FRANK ACNE, SR.: You'd risk your life for a hundred pounds?
HEMLOCK STONES: I'd risk anyone's life for a hundred pounds -- of DOLLARS!
--Firesign Theatre,_The Tale of the Giant Rat of Sumatra_
================================================================================
Subject: Re: now, y'see...
Name: um
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 64.12.102.33
Email: umeruh0000@aol.com
Link: http://www.geocities.com/dvdaria
>no simple answers? s'far's I can see, all those questions're strictly rhetorical (like,watch most *other* later _Daria_ episodes), most of them represent false dichotomies, and ohnevermindigiveup......
>
>feh;)
>
>--wyvern
> (09.01.02/19.12PST)
Then explain the cult of Daria Triumphant. Sure, I'm belaboring the obvious...but I'm also heralding what makes Daria, at its best, a great series of stories.
And it's handled just about the best in 513. And it has the greatest impact on our protagonist.
Um
-
DVDaria! The Web's finest "exquisitely worded angry petition"! www.geocities.com/DVDaria
================================================================================
Subject: Re: now, y'see...
Name: wyvern337
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 152.163.195.203
Email: wyvern337@surrealestate.com
>>no simple answers? s'far's I can see, all those questions're strictly rhetorical (like,watch most *other* later _Daria_ episodes), most of them represent false dichotomies, and ohnevermindigiveup......
>>
>>feh;)
>>
>>--wyvern
>> (09.01.02/19.12PST)
>
>Then explain the cult of Daria Triumphant.
reactionary resistance to change. overreaction to the "Daria Morgendorffer: what's to *like*, anyway?"-vibe some later eps seemed to veer towards @ times (& which I've been heard complaining about myself, to be sure...). etc., undoubtedly.
Sure, I'm belaboring the obvious...but I'm also heralding what makes Daria, at its best, a great series of stories.
>
>And it's handled just about the best in 513. And it has the greatest impact on our protagonist.
>
>
>Um
>-
>DVDaria! The Web's finest "exquisitely worded angry petition"! www.geocities.com/DVDaria
FRANK ACNE, SR.: You'd risk your life for a hundred pounds?
HEMLOCK STONES: I'd risk anyone's life for a hundred pounds -- of DOLLARS!
--Firesign Theatre,_The Tale of the Giant Rat of Sumatra_
================================================================================
Subject: Re: The 13's
Name: TeekiJane
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 64.12.103.46
Email: teekijane@excite.com
Awwwright. Lessee here.
#113
To be honest, I didn't understand this episode completely when it aired the first time, and I still think I'm missing an element. To me, it feels like 10 minutes were chopped out of it or something.
#213
I want to see it! It sounds pretty good.
#313
I saw this one AFTER all the season four Tom hoopla. It was good to see the beginning, but seemed anticlimatic after watching DDMD.
#413
This was great. One of the first episodes I saw, and I had little to no clue who this Tom guy was, outside of Jane's boyfriend/future ex. (The next episode I saw right afterward was Fire! so I had them in reverse.) I'm actually a soap opera fan (great murder mystery on As the World Turns right now) so I wasn't turned off by that aspect of it. My sister's dated two friends, so I could see how it would happen, and I liked the fallout and cliffhanger.
#513
I'm going through this stage right now where I'm trying to find deeper meaning in things that really don't have any. I'm also trying to be more adult and make amends with my parents...which isn't working out so well. I thought this was a great close to a show that I love so dearly. (Yes, I know that IICY is the real close, but so what.)
And the winner....
#513
#413
#313
#113
I could be doing something productive now, but why would I want to do that?
"I'm going to hunt that boy down and do dirty things to him. But first, some ice cream." --Zee
================================================================================
Subject: Re: The 13's
Name: Cimorene
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 216.23.14.62
Email: cimorene@mydaria.zzn.com
Link: http://www.angelfire.com/pq/renifererop
113 - "Feeling bad... not feeling worse... good."
213 - maybe saw it once, for some reason "Triple bypass, Daddy!" is the only thing I remember. maybe I turned it on near the end or something...
313 - I have been trying and Trying and TRYING! to get this ep on tape!!! The one time it was listed as a rerun, they showed some other crap instead. (Go figure.)
413 - screaming into a pillow works very well if you don't want to disturb the rest of the house, if anyone was wondering. ^_^
513 - opening black screen thing very pointless, otherwise a most excellent way to end a season.
best - 413, with 513 and 113 duking it out for second place, and the other two remaining in the big pile of eps I haven't really seen.
~~~~~
"I say what it occurs to me to say when I think I hear people say things. More I cannot say."
-the man in the shack
================================================================================
Subject: Re: The 13's
Name: Sailor Danielle
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 24.29.40.155
Email: janelane25@hotmail.com
Link: http://www.geocities.com/lady_kyra61
Boxing Daria. The last episode and still the best of the series when to comes to tone and emotional high.
This post has now ended...
~~~~~~~~~~
Homer: You sure that you don't want to change your name to Homer Jr? The kids could call you HoJu.
Bart: Let me get back to you.
'Fanfiction... the last refuge of the Daria/Trent shipper.'
================================================================================
Subject: Re: The 13's
Name: itsclark
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 12.90.4.57
Email: itsclark@worldnet.att.net
Haven't seen Jane's Addition... Argh!
My vote is split between Boxing Daria and Write Where it Hurts. I'll forgo commentary because being season enders, these have all been discussed heavily. But my order of preference would be...
#1) Write Where it Hurts, ties with Boxing Daria
#2) Dye Dye my Darling
#3) Misery Chick
All of these are very good episodes. I'm hoping Jane's Addition turns up in marathon.
================================================================================
Subject: Re: The 13's
Name: renfield1969
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 141.157.90.218
Email: entropysedge@earthlink.net
Link: http://www.entropysedge.net
Favorite:
Write Where It Hurts - The blowup at Helen, Helen's attempts at reconciliation and eventual solution , and the winning story itself all push this one right to the top.
Runners-Up:
Boxing Daria - A trip down psyche lane. Little Daria and Quinn were great, and it brought the series full circle.
The Misery Chick - Could only have been better if Daria ever showed some emotion.
Jane's Addition - Tragically, the multimedia project itself was one of the best parts of this episode.
DDMD - Angst galore. Pity Jane wanted to wreck a really important friendship that way.
================================================================================
Subject: votes, & requisite surliness;)
Name: wyvern337
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 205.188.192.48
Email: wyvern337@surrealestate.com
first, as has been said before by others: these're all pretty close, no really *bad* episodes, etc.
once again, favorites to the left, leasts to the right:
213; 513; 413; 113; 313, COULD consider 413/113 a tie...
and now, something that's been bugging me (of course;> off & on since just after "Boxing Daria" aired: have kept hearing about how this "explains how Daria got that way" (&/or words to that effect), and/but a distinct shortage of qualifiers such as "offers a glimpse of/ snapshot of/ window into". Maybe it's just considered so obvious that no one bothers, but short of something as extreme as, say, becoming a quintuple amputee in a tragic blimp accident on superbowl sunday, no *one* incident really "explains" *anyone*.
not dissing the ep (check the ranking I gave it in my votes), just've always felt there was more to be said/seen there.
--wyvern
(09.01.02/19.01PST)
FRANK ACNE, SR.: You'd risk your life for a hundred pounds?
HEMLOCK STONES: I'd risk anyone's life for a hundred pounds -- of DOLLARS!
--Firesign Theatre,_The Tale of the Giant Rat of Sumatra_
================================================================================
Subject: Re: votes, & requisite surliness;)
Name: um
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 64.12.102.33
Email: umeruh0000@aol.com
Link: http://www.geocities.com/dvdaria
>and now, something that's been bugging me (of course;> off & on since just after "Boxing Daria" aired: have kept hearing about how this "explains how Daria got that way" (&/or words to that effect), and/but a distinct shortage of qualifiers such as "offers a glimpse of/ snapshot of/ window into". Maybe it's just considered so obvious that no one bothers, but short of something as extreme as, say, becoming a quintuple amputee in a tragic blimp accident on superbowl sunday, no *one* incident really "explains" *anyone*.
>
>not dissing the ep (check the ranking I gave it in my votes), just've always felt there was more to be said/seen there.
Well...what we know is what's on the screen. And what's on the screen is Daria realizing that much of this is her doing, and a pivotal moment in her life.
I cause trouble, so I'll retreat.
Sure, there's more...but the episode spent its first two acts setting up this repressed memory, revealing it drop by drop...because it was that important.
>
>--wyvern
> (09.01.02/19.01PST)
>
>
>FRANK ACNE, SR.: You'd risk your life for a hundred pounds?
>HEMLOCK STONES: I'd risk anyone's life for a hundred pounds -- of DOLLARS!
>--Firesign Theatre,_The Tale of the Giant Rat of Sumatra_
Um
-
DVDaria! The Web's finest "exquisitely worded angry petition"! www.geocities.com/DVDaria
================================================================================
Subject: Re: The 13's
Name: Firah
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 12.86.218.248
Email: f_samyaza@yahoo.com
The 13’s
# 413 Dye, Dye My Darling
Baaack. You brought be back…
Merlin
Excalibur
After taking a well-deserved vacation in the summer of 2000, I was flipping through the stations one day and saw Daria was on (for once). It was DDMD, and it had just started with Jane starting down the tiger at the Lawndale Zoo. I decided to watch it since I hadn’t seen a Daria episode in over a year and a half.
Fast-forward to about twenty-seven minutes later, and the credits are scrolling down the screen with Cake’s “Friend Is A Four Letter Word” playing in the background. At this point my mind was completely blown away!
This is the episode that pulled me into the Daria universe and turned me into the obsessive fan I am today. After calming down, I started asking some hard questions: What happened to Daria and Jane’s relationship? Who the HELL is this Tom guy? Why is he busting up one of the best friendships on television? Of course I had not seen “See Jane Run, “Jane’s Addition”, “Partners Complaint”, “Fire”, or even “The Misery Chick” yet so what did I know? At this point, my view of Daria and Jane’s relationship was still the Season One version: The cynically cool outsiders, fighting the good fight, in world of self-serving, phony idiots that have run things since Time began.
Naïve huh? As the show so brutally presented to us, so were these two. The real world came crashing down on both of them, and nearly crushed their relationship in the process, by using their own desires and weaknesses against them.
After watching the episode for the first time, I was in a total state of shock! Then I got mad!
Daria?! How could you! Over a GUY??!! Oh Poor Jane!
For the record: I had nothing but sympathy for Jane no matter HOW BAD she acted! Believe me I totally sympathized with her and the situation she was in. As for Mr. Sloane’s behavior during this episode…you DON’T go after your future ex-girlfriend’s best friend and expect me to think well of you.
That does not make a very good first impression.
<For all of you Thomas Sloane zealots out there, I’m not going to here it from you! That’s how I feel, you can’t change my mind, don’t even TRY IT>
This episode was almost too horrible to watch…but I couldn’t turn away. I vowed to tape the episode the next time it came on, and I did. And then I watched it again, and again, and again. I don’t think I’ve watched a television show in the past 5 years that was this powerful. This was truly a classic episode.
It should have been nominated for an Emmy…
The Standout: It’s a tie folks: The Kiss and The Confession
# 513 Boxing Daria
We got to see more of what makes the Morgendorffer's tick.
In the earlier season of Daria everyone ASSUMED that Daria was this brilliant, neglected outcast, while her career driven, oblivious parents doted on the younger daughter and left Daria to fend for herself. With the revelations in "Boxing Daria" we see that a lot of Daria's outcast status was of her choosing, as well as her own fault.
Ol'Jakey is not as clueless as he pretends to be. He had Daria pegged back when she was 6 years old. When Helen and Jake are arguing about having to go to another teachers conference regarding Daria, he pretty much assesed the situation in his replies to Helen:
Helen - Jake, this isn't about you. It's about her, having a little trouble fitting in.
Jake - She doesn't want to fit in, damn it! Why can't you admit that?!
Helen - Jake, she's a child, she doesn't know any better!
Jake - That's what she wants you to believe!
Oh yeah. Jake understood his little girl better than Helen did. Either that or Helen had a bad case of denial. Or maybe she was just plain scared that she was raising a stranger that she would never be able to comprehend.
<I personally thought it was strange, with the introduction of the Aunt Amy character, that Helen wouldn't recognize the traits in her own daughter that seemed to mirror the ones in her own sister.
But in "Aunt Nauseam" we found out that Amy and Helen never really spent that much time together --- with Amy hiding in her room and all. >
We also see why Jake and Helen never bothered to interact with any of Daria's high school teachers. Originally it was believed by most Daria fans that the parents were uncaring of Daria and had put all of their concerns into their careers and/or Quinn.
The reason was/is pretty simple. Whenever Mr O'Neill, or anyone else called them regarding Daria, Jake and Helen assumed that it was the same old saw again. So they never bothered to respond or tried to avoid it. They had been doing this for so long it had become old hat. I know that's not a very good excuse but by this time they understood where Daria was coming from. Take the converstation between Helen and Mr O'Neill from the episode "Arts and Crass" for example:
Assistant - Helen? It's your daughter's teacher.
Helen - Tell them I'll make sure Quinn turns in the assignment on Monday, oh and, try to find out what the assignment is and if you could get started making notes on it.
Assistant - It's your other daughter, I think.
Helen - Daria? Well then, tell them I'll talk to her about her attitude and try to find out who she insulted and what she said.
Or
Mr. O'Neill - Hello, Mrs. Morgenfoffer, oh, Morgendorffer. This is Timothy O'Neill at Lawndale High, I'm your daughter Daria's English teacher.
Helen - Yes, is this about her essay on banning capital punishment and bringing back torture instead? Because that was obviously a joke.
Whenever Jake and Helen got another one of these phone calls from school they just put it down to ANOTHER teacher who didn't understand what Daria is really all about.
Even Mr. O'Neill finally got a clue...well enough of one to stop the parent teacher conference calls.
We also see that Quinn is not the spoiled younger sister, as she's been portrayed in countless fan fics, but is suffering from the dreaded "second child" syndrome. No matter what she does to try and get her parents to acknowledge her, they won't. They give her whatever she wants and then promptly ignores her.
Need the platinum card? Sure kiddo! Then Jake goes back to the paper and Helen goes back to her career..
This issue has also been shown in a lot of episodes from Season One on up. Usually her brain dead prattling at the dinner table is Quinn screaming for some type, any type of attention. Quinn is still looking for that approval, even if she is going about it the wrong way. She is definitely her mother's child in that way too.
The focus is, as always, on the first-born. No matter how indifferent the first-born seems to act towards the parents’ attentions, or anyone else’s.
I mean come on, the 3 year old Quinn bouncing in the backseat, telling her parents that she has friends, and they like her, and she is such a good little girl, but the parents still focus on Daria no matter how bad, or mean, or cynical she acts. Even Daria finally realized this, and finally apologized, or as close as an apology as she was going to give, to her parents about the way she has treated everyone since was little
I could go on and on about all of the insights this episode revealed about Clan Morgendorffer but those are only the tidbits.
The Standout: The great big hug Daria gives Jane, and the look on Jane’s face when she receives it!
# 213 Write Where It Hurts
Although the first 19 minutes of this show was mediocre at best, it was the last vignette written by Daria that not only saved this episode from being “another filler episode” but also actually changed the direction of the entire show. I’ll admit that “The Misery Chick” and “See Jane Run” were a precursor of the character development that would eventually appear in later episodes, but this is the episode where you can say, at least in hindsight, when everything changed. We’re talking the BT (Before Tom) era here folks!
The Standout: A mothers tears of joy, as a child says, in a round about way, “Mother I love you and one day we’ll become the best of friends”
Anything that can make Helen Morgendorffer cry (besides alcohol and heated, sibling shouting matches) has just got to be good stuff!
# 113 The Misery Chick
Although I still tried to watch Daria when I could during Season One, this is the one episode that I never got to see until long after Season Four had ended. Since I only started to watch Daria more frequently after the tumultuous events of DDMD, this episode seemed almost quaint in a way.
Jane and Daria not getting along? Jane avoiding Daria because she thinks she’s a heartless slug, who jokes about people dying? Jane also feeling guilty about being a heartless slug who makes jokes about people dying? Most of the school in mourning because some jerk jock gets killed by “the very goal posts that were to be named in his honor”. Daria becomes the most popular girl in school because everyone feels she is some combat-booted, Byronette, that faces the void on a daily basis? This episode seemed almost harmless compared to the purely, poisonous, antics by Jane and Daria during the “triangle” in Season 4 and IIFY, which also carried over into Season 5.
I’ll admit this episode had it’s funny moments, but there was a somber undercurrent, that ran throughout the entire show. Did you also notice that even the music clips in this episode were almost muted or seemed not to be there at all? I’m pretty sure that this occurred in other episodes but it seemed that the silences between scenes, and even the pauses between the characters as they spoke, were a lot more pronounced than in any other episode.
I also finally got to see a Daria character that was more repulsive, vile, and loathsome than Val or Ms Li (Pre-Fizz Ed): Tommy Sherman! What a gaping, stinking sphincter of a human being he was!
This is a good episode, by Season One standards, but not the greatest one out there. If I had saw this episode first, I might have even revised my opinion on the when “everything changed” theory I had about “Write Where it Hurts.”
The Standout: Brittany: It really makes you think! Brittany Taylor with that oh-so-serious look on her face was classic! In the immortal words of the host of The Daily Show “And now, your moment of Zen”
# 313 Jane’s Addition
Another one of the “ugly episodes” (see “Partners Complaint”, “Prize Fighters”, “See Jane Run”, “The Lost Girls”)
I didn’t like this episode at all. I watched it once, and have had no desire to EVER see it again. I can’t even give a decent review of it because I don’t WANT to remember it. This is the episode that most Daria pundits describe as one of the pivotal Daria episodes, which it is because it introduced Tom Sloane to the world. However, “See Jane Run” is another pivotal episode; and I can’t bear to watch that one either. “Dye, Dye, My Darling is a pivotal episode, and there are people out there who absolutely HATE that show.
C’est la vie, I say, and to the cellar with this one.
Nuff said.
================================================================================
Subject: Re: The 13's
Name: Kara Wild
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 206.170.217.214
Email: kara_wild@hotmail.com
Link: http://www.the-wildone.com/index.html
><I personally thought it was strange, with the introduction of the Aunt Amy character, that Helen wouldn't recognize the traits in her own daughter that seemed to mirror the ones in her own sister.
>
>But in "Aunt Nauseam" we found out that Amy and Helen never really spent that much time together --- with Amy hiding in her room and all.
I guess if they were far enough apart in years, Helen wouldn't have been around long enough to observe Amy's behavior.
As for the rest of your analysis of "Boxing Daria": WORD. Wonderfully thought out.
--------------
"But there's something out there. Something stupid."
Daria, "The Lawndale File"
================================================================================
Subject: sooo....
Name: wyvern337
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 64.12.106.41
Email: wyvern337@surrealestate.com
that'd be your Evil Twin who's been posting to alt.tv.daria & such?;)
>The 13’s
>
<*znipp!*>
># 513 Boxing Daria
>
>We got to see more of what makes the Morgendorffer's tick.
>
>In the earlier season of Daria everyone ASSUMED that Daria was this brilliant, neglected outcast, while her career driven, oblivious parents doted on the younger daughter and left Daria to fend for herself. With the revelations in "Boxing Daria" we see that a lot of Daria's outcast status was of her choosing, as well as her own fault.
>
>Ol'Jakey is not as clueless as he pretends to be. He had Daria pegged back when she was 6 years old. When Helen and Jake are arguing about having to go to another teachers conference regarding Daria, he pretty much assesed the situation in his replies to Helen:
>
>Helen - Jake, this isn't about you. It's about her, having a little trouble fitting in.
>
>Jake - She doesn't want to fit in, damn it! Why can't you admit that?!
>
>Helen - Jake, she's a child, she doesn't know any better!
>
>Jake - That's what she wants you to believe!
>
>Oh yeah. Jake understood his little girl better than Helen did. Either that or Helen had a bad case of denial. Or maybe she was just plain scared that she was raising a stranger that she would never be able to comprehend.
>
><I personally thought it was strange, with the introduction of the Aunt Amy character, that Helen wouldn't recognize the traits in her own daughter that seemed to mirror the ones in her own sister.
>
>But in "Aunt Nauseam" we found out that Amy and Helen never really spent that much time together --- with Amy hiding in her room and all. >
>
>We also see why Jake and Helen never bothered to interact with any of Daria's high school teachers. Originally it was believed by most Daria fans that the parents were uncaring of Daria and had put all of their concerns into their careers and/or Quinn.
>
>The reason was/is pretty simple. Whenever Mr O'Neill, or anyone else called them regarding Daria, Jake and Helen assumed that it was the same old saw again. So they never bothered to respond or tried to avoid it. They had been doing this for so long it had become old hat. I know that's not a very good excuse but by this time they understood where Daria was coming from. Take the converstation between Helen and Mr O'Neill from the episode "Arts and Crass" for example:
>
>Assistant - Helen? It's your daughter's teacher.
>
>Helen - Tell them I'll make sure Quinn turns in the assignment on Monday, oh and, try to find out what the assignment is and if you could get started making notes on it.
>
>Assistant - It's your other daughter, I think.
>
>Helen - Daria? Well then, tell them I'll talk to her about her attitude and try to find out who she insulted and what she said.
>
>Or
>
>Mr. O'Neill - Hello, Mrs. Morgenfoffer, oh, Morgendorffer. This is Timothy O'Neill at Lawndale High, I'm your daughter Daria's English teacher.
>
>Helen - Yes, is this about her essay on banning capital punishment and bringing back torture instead? Because that was obviously a joke.
>
>Whenever Jake and Helen got another one of these phone calls from school they just put it down to ANOTHER teacher who didn't understand what Daria is really all about.
>
>Even Mr. O'Neill finally got a clue...well enough of one to stop the parent teacher conference calls.
>
>We also see that Quinn is not the spoiled younger sister, as she's been portrayed in countless fan fics, but is suffering from the dreaded "second child" syndrome. No matter what she does to try and get her parents to acknowledge her, they won't. They give her whatever she wants and then promptly ignores her.
>
>Need the platinum card? Sure kiddo! Then Jake goes back to the paper and Helen goes back to her career..
>
>This issue has also been shown in a lot of episodes from Season One on up. Usually her brain dead prattling at the dinner table is Quinn screaming for some type, any type of attention. Quinn is still looking for that approval, even if she is going about it the wrong way. She is definitely her mother's child in that way too.
>
>The focus is, as always, on the first-born. No matter how indifferent the first-born seems to act towards the parents’ attentions, or anyone else’s.
>
>I mean come on, the 3 year old Quinn bouncing in the backseat, telling her parents that she has friends, and they like her, and she is such a good little girl, but the parents still focus on Daria no matter how bad, or mean, or cynical she acts. Even Daria finally realized this, and finally apologized, or as close as an apology as she was going to give, to her parents about the way she has treated everyone since was little
>
>I could go on and on about all of the insights this episode revealed about Clan Morgendorffer but those are only the tidbits.
>
>The Standout: The great big hug Daria gives Jane, and the look on Jane’s face when she receives it!
>
<*znipp!*>
(09.01.02/23.33PST)
FRANK ACNE, SR.: You'd risk your life for a hundred pounds?
HEMLOCK STONES: I'd risk anyone's life for a hundred pounds -- of DOLLARS!
--Firesign Theatre,_The Tale of the Giant Rat of Sumatra_
================================================================================
Subject: Re: sooo....
Name: Firah
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 12.86.212.197
Email: f_samyaza@yahoo.com
>that'd be your Evil Twin who's been posting to alt.tv.daria & such?;)
>
I guess you read my post on my views regarding some of the flaws of "Boxing Daria". That response was provoked. But it didn't make it any less true.
Besides that main subject of that rant had extended from "Janes Addition" all the way to the last episode, so I was right to a certain extent.
Besides, I'm on USENET, you must have thick-skin, a sharp tongue, and pack a very BIG flamethrower...or be destoyed!
Kind of like talk radio...
Firah
================================================================================
Subject: Re: sooo....
Name: wyvern337
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 205.188.198.153
Email: wyvern337@surrealestate.com
the provoacation would, I guess, have been the previous poster's assertion that Daria's comment to Jane about both her grandmothers having offered her a hundred dollars if she'd change her look (or was it just her hairstyle?) likely being just a "cynical exaggeration".
So I guess you DO "...build a show around a character that is an intelligent outsider who makes fun of the stupidities that other people refuse to recognize and then have her say 'oh, wait, I'm just a jerk!'" (Wraith, of course, the remainder of that particular post of yours being basically an extended riff on the full quote)?
Or maybe the "wait, she's just a jerk!" is the fans' responsibility.
whatever.
--wyvern
(10.01.02/17.48PST)
================================================================================
Subject: Re: sooo....
Name: um
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 152.163.205.61
Email: umeruh0000@aol.com
Link: http://www.geocities.com/dvdaria
>
>Or maybe the "wait, she's just a jerk!" is the fans' responsibility.
>
>whatever.
>
Superheroes are prefect. Real people are jerks.
I'm sure Daria would not approve of donning tights, a cape, a cowl and a utility belt stocked with White Out and a copy of "The Elements of Style" just to please the teeming millions.
Um
-
DVDaria! The Web's finest "exquisitely worded angry petition"! www.geocities.com/DVDaria
================================================================================
Subject: Re: sooo....
Name: wyvern337
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 152.163.195.182
Email: wyvern337@surrealestate.com
>>
>>Or maybe the "wait, she's just a jerk!" is the fans' responsibility.
>>
>>whatever.
>>
>Superheroes are prefect. Real people are jerks.
well, okey, not *just* a jerk -- I mean, singlehandedly responsible for virtually *all* her family's problems...*whew!* SUPERJERK! ;>
"sorry", but some things *might* be subject to more than one interpretation (as when a certain someone was jerk enough to point out that the actual available evidence could support either of two birth orders for the Barksdale sisters...:)
..................................
here's another one of those silly ideas I have once in awhile: we know Quinn's smart (I mean, they've got the same generic makeup & stuff)...might there've been some formative influence on how little sis relates to her peers from watching big sis (even if only figuratively) catching it in the teeth from hers for being a "brain"?
>
>I'm sure Daria would not approve of donning tights, a cape, a cowl and a utility belt stocked with White Out and a copy of "The Elements of Style" just to please the teeming millions.
oh, come *on*: we *know* she fights crime in a stretchy stretchy outfit (it's always the quiet ones with the glasses, dontcha know)...
>
>
>Um
>-
>DVDaria! The Web's finest "exquisitely worded angry petition"! www.geocities.com/DVDaria
FRANK ACNE, SR.: You'd risk your life for a hundred pounds?
HEMLOCK STONES: I'd risk anyone's life for a hundred pounds -- of DOLLARS!
--Firesign Theatre,_The Tale of the Giant Rat of Sumatra_
================================================================================
Subject: Re: The 13's
Name: Shoebleu
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 172.153.78.72
Email: shoebleunmy@aol.com
Link: http://members.aol.com/shoebleunmy/daria/
About DDMD...
>After watching the episode for the first time, I was in a total state of shock! Then I got mad!
>
>Daria?! How could you! Over a GUY??!! Oh Poor Jane!
I know exactly how you feel! My best friend was 100 miles away, watching the same episode the first time it aired, and she called me during the commercial break so we could spend 3 minutes just going "oooooh s---, what the hell was that?!"
"i know i can't be the only whatever-i-am in the room"
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Subject: Re: Weird but true
Name: sam
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 24.56.199.168
Email: samlincoln@mac.com
Link: http://www.cosmic-hippo.org
>About DDMD...
>
>>After watching the episode for the first time, I was in a total state of shock! Then I got mad!
>>
>>Daria?! How could you! Over a GUY??!! Oh Poor Jane!
>
>I know exactly how you feel! My best friend was 100 miles away, watching the same episode the first time it aired, and she called me during the commercial break so we could spend 3 minutes just going "oooooh s---, what the hell was that?!"
Last night I was looking for a tape for West Wing, and the first one I popped in was my tape of DDMD, right smack dab in the middle of the kiss...first Daria i've seen since "Boxing Daria" aired.
-sam
"When all else has been done and said, along comes Mr. Oysterhead."
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Subject: I'm certain you didn't recycle that one
Name: um
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 152.163.205.61
Email: umeruh0000@aol.com
Link: http://www.geocities.com/dvdaria
>
>
>>About DDMD...
>>
>>>After watching the episode for the first time, I was in a total state of shock! Then I got mad!
>>>
>>>Daria?! How could you! Over a GUY??!! Oh Poor Jane!
>>
>>I know exactly how you feel! My best friend was 100 miles away, watching the same episode the first time it aired, and she called me during the commercial break so we could spend 3 minutes just going "oooooh s---, what the hell was that?!"
>
>Last night I was looking for a tape for West Wing, and the first one I popped in was my tape of DDMD, right smack dab in the middle of the kiss...first Daria i've seen since "Boxing Daria" aired.
>
I got re-hooked during a 'thon before IIFY, and realized...this show's pretty good, better than I remember...then IIFY happened and, well, there you are.
Um
-
DVDaria! The Web's finest "exquisitely worded angry petition"! www.geocities.com/DVDaria
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Subject: Re: The 13's
Name: MikeYamiolkoski
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 172.140.21.221
Email: MikeYamiolkoski@cs.com
#13: The Misery Chick, Write Where it Hurts, Jane’s Addition, Dye! Dye! My Darling, Boxing Daria
WINNER: They’re all good. If I must pick one… 413. But only because of the kiss.
#113, The Misery Chick gave us great insight into Daria’s character as well as the importance of her friendship with Jane.
#213, Write Where it Hurts was just plain funny.
#313, Jane’s Addition gave us Tom, which gave us more tension and growth, and it was a welcome relief to know that not every guy in Lawndale falls into one of two categories: Losers and Mack.
#413, Dye! Dye! My Darling really stirred the pot and made things interesting. It also showed us that Daria, like all teens, is fallible, and maybe she’s not as sure of herself as she thought.
#513, Boxing Daria gave Daria some history and depth that we needed to see, and was perhaps the most human of all the episodes. A nice way to end it all, except of course there’s one more story to tell.
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Subject: Belle Book's 13s via email
Name: um
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 64.12.102.33
Email: umeruh0000@aol.com
Link: http://www.geocities.com/dvdaria
Subj: My votes for the 13's
Date: 01/08/02 4:26:08 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: Belle Book
To: Umeruh0000
And what a tough bunch this will probably be! Unfortunately, I can't vote for #213, "Write Where It Hurts", since I never saw the show. But I can vote for the other 4, so here goes.
"The Misery Chick" is a very good episode. We see Daria in a most unaccustomed position -- being "popular", in a way. Of course, it's not for the usual reasons -- everyone wants advice on how to deal with Tommy Sherman's death, and Daria is considered "the misery chick" because she rarely smiles. Meanwhile, Jane's avoiding Daria partly out of guilt (they had joked that maybe Sherman would die), and partly because she doesn't want to think too much about death. It's neat to see Trent not be oblivious as well. Oh, and I cheered a bit when Daria told Sherman off after she (and we) saw how big a jerk he is.
"Jane's Addition" is even better. It's the episode where we first meet Tom Sloane, and where the nail's hammered into the coffin of Daria's crush on Trent. Here, we see that Daria's so dependent on Jane socially that she becomes too protective when Jane takes an interest in another guy (even if the guy's not a jerk). And here we (and Daria) see clearly why Trent's not the right guy for Daria -- he's not reliable enough. All this provides tension, and makes it a very good episode.
"Dye! Dye! My Darling". The first episode I ever saw of Daria. For that reason alone, the episode is very high on my list of favorite Daria episodes. But it's high on my list for more than just that reason. Here we see a most unusual situation amongst high-school sitcom girls -- Daria actually wants to keep her friendship with Jane, so much so that she denies being attracted to Tom (a denial that's probably not true). For a contrast, I can point out Betty & Veronica from the Archie comics. And this episode is noteworthy for one other thing -- Daria's first kiss, and the consequences of that first kiss on her relationship with Jane (and Jane's relationship with Tom). It also inspired my first effort into the realm of Daria fanfiction -- "Inner Demons". In short, a great episode.
"Boxing Daria" is also a great episode. Here Eichler shows us a plausible picture of how Daria became the way she is today. We also get a great look at Daria actually questioning some of her assumptions about earlier actions. Had she been wrong all this time when she thought that her family was driving her crazy? Was she the one who was torturing them? The answer is, she's just so different from the crowd that her family drove her crazy sometimes, and she drove her family crazy sometimes. Hopefully, this little insight will help her be a little more tolerant without causing her to sacrifice too much of what makes her unique.
So, the question is, which episode should I vote for? D!D!MD? Or BD? They're the best of the ones I have to vote for, and are very close, in my opinion. It's a tough call, but I'm going with "Dye! Dye! My Darling" because it inspired my fanfic "Inner Demons", because it's the first Daria episode I ever saw, and because I like Tom. Right behind it is "Boxing Daria". Then comes "Jane's Addition", and trailing the field is "The Misery Chick", which isn't bad at all, but has the misfortune of being in the same group as a bunch of other great episodes.
Belle Book
Um
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DVDaria! The Web's finest "exquisitely worded angry petition"! www.geocities.com/DVDaria
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Subject: The 13's: Vote tally as of 1:30am 1/10
Name: A.J.
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 209.240.222.132
Email: AJ0716@webtv.net
Link: ././
213- 10
413- 8
513- 8
113- 3
313- 1
At least no one gets cellarized, as none of these episodes deserve it. I am rather surprised 313 didn't get that much of a following, I ranked it 2nd in my voting, based mostly on the Daria/Trent scene at the pizza place. Effectively ending the crush. Plus being essentially the catalyst for S4 and S5 with the introduction of Tom, like him or not, I figured that would've garnered a few more votes.
Otherwise, I'm not surprised, I expected these 3 to battle for it, even though I don't see why WWIH is so great beyond seeing what Daria thinks of her possible future, just an average ep for this group. I personally ranked it last, but that's just me I suppose. What do I know? :-)
A.J.
---------------------------------------------
Tom/Jake/Jeffy: Whoomp! There it is!, Whoomp! There it is!, Whoomp! There it is!...
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Subject: /me blinks: 30 votes!
Name: um
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 64.12.102.33
Email: umeruh0000@aol.com
Link: http://www.geocities.com/dvdaria
(No text)
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Subject: On your way to underground success!
Name: Robert Nowall
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 152.163.204.192
Email: RobtNowall@aol.com
(No text)
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Subject: Hey, A.J.! We're running a typical .com!
Name: um
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 166.90.232.184
Email: umeruh0000@aol.com
Link: http://www.geocities.com/dvdaria
Makes no money, content providers unpaid.
We're a 2002 success story!
Um
-
DVDaria! The Web's finest "exquisitely worded angry petition"! www.geocities.com/DVDaria
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Subject: Re: Hey, A.J.! We're running a typical .com!
Name: RedlegRick
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 152.163.204.207
Email: RedlegRick@aol.com
I want in on your grossly overvalued IPO!
>Makes no money, content providers unpaid.
>
>We're a 2002 success story!
>
>
>Um
>-
>DVDaria! The Web's finest "exquisitely worded angry petition"! www.geocities.com/DVDaria
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Subject: P.T. Barnum was right.
Name: um
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 152.163.205.61
Email: umeruh0000@aol.com
Link: http://www.geocities.com/dvdaria
(No text) ================================================================================