Subject: The 04's
Name: A.J.
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 209.240.222.32
Email: AJ1021@webtv.net
You know the drill(hopefully) by now, so without further adieu.....
104- "Cafe Disaffecto" To avoid an unwanted visit to music camp, Daria volunteers to work for a new coffeehouse after the old cybercafe got trashed. Originally by fundraising, which gives the episodes most hilarious line from Jane.
Jane: (regarding Mrs Johansen) She has no family, she ate them.
one other:
Jane: We should be doing something right now, I'm sure of it.
Daria: Yeah, I think you're right.
<Jane snaps picture>
Some of the other efforts at fundraising provided some humorous moments as well. Kevin and Brittany's visit to Mr DeMartino's home was done well, but how can the school make money selling 12 albums for a penny? Even Quinn got in on the act, using her charms to seduce people into buying long distance phone cards.
Other moments include Andrea's first lines, K+B's attempts at Shakespeare. Also it's well known Daria is intelligent, but this is the first episode where her writing talents are shown for us to see and she didn't disappoint, and neither did this episode.
204- "I Don't" In the first glimpse we get of the Helen-Rita rivalry, Erin is getting married and their mother is paying for the whole thing, in a futile attempt to upstage her sister, Helen gets Daria and Quinn put in as bridesmaids. One nitpick here Erin is 21, even if we count season 5 as 1 full year instead of a half, Erin should only be 23 in Aunt Nauseam instead she's 24. Back to this ep. we also get the first glimpse of the then "savior" Aunt Amy. Daria has found someone in the family she can finally relate to in some way. We also had a minister with designs on Quinn, a pointless subplot about an LHS bridal show, and Luhrman "Is that your first name or your last?"
We get our first deep look into the Barksdale family here, and little else but filler. So-so episode.
304- "Daria Dance Party" Another first with this episode, the first and only "emsemble" episode that actually carried and exeuted the premise fairly well. Quinn gets roped into coordinating the school dance and lays the job in Jane's lap. Meanwhile, to compete Sandi hosts her own party, the same night as the dance, which turns out to be a total flop, while the job Jane did with the dance is getting rave reviews, our little Quinn takes all the credit. We also get a rare highlight from our friends Kevin and Brittany, with their little spat that brings about this line from Daria: "Forget it, that species mates for life". Daria and Jane also nearly find their one true loves, except that they're the cousins of Upchuck. In a rare turn to the dark side for our heroines, they dismiss them on the basis of name alone, just as Quinn or any other "popular" person would've done, without a second thought. One of the only times I was disappointed in them.
Overall this works great for an ensemble episode, which equals an averaage episode overall.
404- "Murder She Snored" Yet another first in this episode. The first episode to use a dream sequence as the main plot of an episode(with DTAH we're unsure if this is the case) This episode was total filler. Though the homages to the many cop and mystery shows were amusing, and sometimes had me guessing what they were spoofing next.
The dream is of Kevin's murder, something some of us would like to see for real, and Daria is the main suspect, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, and must prove her innocence through a variety of various spoofs of mystery episodes.
Another episode you seemed to either like or hate, I thought this ep was okay, not great, but okay.
504- "Camp Fear" Daria and Quinn attend a camp reunion, Trent and Jane enjoy some time in the country, Helen and Jake clean the garage, by now you get the problem here, too much crammed into too little time and few if any definitive endings.
My choice- 104- Cafe Disaffecto
Followed by "I Don't, Daria Dance Party, Camp Fear, and Murder She Snored.
Good night, all!
A.J.
---------------------------------------------
Tom/Jake/Jeffy: Whoomp! There it is!, Whoomp! There it is!, Whoomp! There it is!...
---------------------------------------------
================================================================================
Subject: Re: The 04's
Name: D. T. Dey
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 64.12.107.159
Email: ddey65@yahoo.com
>
>You know the drill(hopefully) by now, so without further adieu.....
>
>104- "Cafe Disaffecto" To avoid an unwanted visit to music camp, Daria volunteers to work for a new coffeehouse after the old cybercafe got trashed. Originally by fundraising, which gives the episodes most hilarious line from Jane.
>
>Jane: (regarding Mrs Johansen) She has no family, she ate them.
>
>one other:
>
>Jane: We should be doing something right now, I'm sure of it.
>
>Daria: Yeah, I think you're right.
>
><Jane snaps picture>
>
>Some of the other efforts at fundraising provided some humorous moments as well. Kevin and Brittany's visit to Mr DeMartino's home was done well, but how can the school make money selling 12 albums for a penny? Even Quinn got in on the act, using her charms to seduce people into buying long distance phone cards.
>
Regardless of how much money as she had, I doubt she sold them all to Danny, despite what the MTV Website said. She's lucky she wasn't robbed on the way to school with so much of it hanging out of her pockets. And knowing Ms. Li, she probably *did* give her more phone cards to sell.
>Other moments include Andrea's first lines, K+B's attempts at Shakespeare. Also it's well known Daria is intelligent, but this is the first episode where her writing talents are shown for us to see and she didn't disappoint, and neither did this episode.
>
Her Melody Powers story was the best thing about this episode. I've got to wonder about that punk rocker. He was funny, but where did he come from,...other than England, of course?
>204- "I Don't" In the first glimpse we get of the Helen-Rita rivalry, Erin is getting married and their mother is paying for the whole thing, in a futile attempt to upstage her sister, Helen gets Daria and Quinn put in as bridesmaids. One nitpick here Erin is 21, even if we count season 5 as 1 full year instead of a half, Erin should only be 23 in Aunt Nauseam instead she's 24. Back to this ep. we also get the first glimpse of the then "savior" Aunt Amy. Daria has found someone in the family she can finally relate to in some way. We also had a minister with designs on Quinn, a pointless subplot about an LHS bridal show, and Luhrman "Is that your first name or your last?"
>
>We get our first deep look into the Barksdale family here, and little else but filler. So-so episode.
>
Three obvious things about this episode. 1)If she couldn't hit it off with Trent, you know Luhrman would be great for her. 2)Daria & Aunt Amy should've never left him to face the carnage of the battling Barksdales. 3)Those brides' maids were incredibly stupid. 4)The Daria Diaries contains a picture from "Masochist's Memories," of a cousin's wedding from years earlier, probably when Daria & Quinn were in Junior High(or maybe Wilson Elementary). Was this another cousin, or did Erin inherit Aunt Rita's bad luck with men?
>304- "Daria Dance Party" Another first with this episode, the first and only "emsemble" episode that actually carried and exeuted the premise fairly well. Quinn gets roped into coordinating the school dance and lays the job in Jane's lap. Meanwhile, to compete Sandi hosts her own party, the same night as the dance, which turns out to be a total flop, while the job Jane did with the dance is getting rave reviews, our little Quinn takes all the credit. We also get a rare highlight from our friends Kevin and Brittany, with their little spat that brings about this line from Daria: "Forget it, that species mates for life". Daria and Jane also nearly find their one true loves, except that they're the cousins of Upchuck. In a rare turn to the dark side for our heroines, they dismiss them on the basis of name alone, just as Quinn or any other "popular" person would've done, without a second thought. One of the only times I was disappointed in them.
[Dumping the Ruttheimer cousins] was a stupid move on their part. I would've thought Daria & Jane(espescially Daria) would've been above that sort of thinking. Upchuck did make a terrific D.J., though. Over on the ff-board when we were discussing the musical tastes of the characters, somebody brought up his collection and how it applies to this episode. You'd have to admit, being from a rich family gives him the means to build up a massive collection of tunes, and equipment.
>Overall this works great for an ensemble episode, which equals an averaage episode overall.
>
Well I'm not as prejudiced against ensemble episodes as most of you, but I'd have to agree with your rating.
>404- "Murder She Snored" Yet another first in this episode. The first episode to use a dream sequence as the main plot of an episode(with DTAH we're unsure if this is the case) This episode was total filler. Though the homages to the many cop and mystery shows were amusing, and sometimes had me guessing what they were spoofing next.
>
>The dream is of Kevin's murder, something some of us would like to see for real, and Daria is the main suspect, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, and must prove her innocence through a variety of various spoofs of mystery episodes.
>
>Another episode you seemed to either like or hate, I thought this ep was okay, not great, but okay.
>
The only other good thing was that we get a sense of how Daria sees herself in the world she lives in. I think a lot of the personalities of the supporting cast was exaggerated more than usual in her dream.
>504- "Camp Fear" Daria and Quinn attend a camp reunion, Trent and Jane enjoy some time in the country, Helen and Jake clean the garage, by now you get the problem here, too much crammed into too little time and few if any definitive endings.
>
Well, we do get to see some elements of the childhoods of Daria & Quinn, and it featured cameo appearences by Shallow15, MsGeek and Jessica Cydnee Jackson. But there's still the question of the difference between Camp Dragonfly and Camp Grizzly.
>My choice- 104- Cafe Disaffecto
>
>Followed by "I Don't, Daria Dance Party, Camp Fear, and Murder She Snored.
>
>Good night, all!
>
>A.J.
Good morning, and my choices are the same as yours.
---------------------------------------------------
My boots send a clear message: "I can kick you."
---Daria Morgendorffer in an interview with
Women’s Wear Daily, June 1998.
---------------------------------------------------
================================================================================
Subject: Re: The 04's
Name: MikeYamiolkoski
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 172.148.15.204
Email: MikeYamiolkoski@cs.com
#4: Café Disaffecto, I Don’t, Daria Dance Party, Murder She Snored, Camp Fear
WINNER: #204, I Don’t
Aunt Amy would be reason enough, but the whole wedding fiasco is hilarious. The B-plot with the bridal show could have been better, though.
Loser: #504, Camp Fear
It was funny for about one full minute, from the time Quinn said “Ew!” in the Tank, to the end of the flashback sequence. Everything else about it was lame.
- Mike Yamiolkoski
================================================================================
Subject: Re: The 04's
Name: Robert Nowall
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 205.188.199.26
Email: RobtNowall@aol.com
>104- "Cafe Disaffecto"
>
An interesting premise, Andrea speaks, and we meet up with Mrs. Johansen for the first time. Not bad, but there've been better.
>204- "I Don't"
Better. One of the best. The inner workings of the Barksdale family are explored at length---and a lot of fun. Extra added attraction: the jeweler who casts doubt on the relationship between Kevin and Mack.
>
>304- "Daria Dance Party"
>
Another fun episode. Jane's tribute to Jackson Pollock (I had to look him up to check the spelling.) "My head hurts." The Fashion Club gets a comeuppance.
On the downside, Daria and Jane indulge in the least kind behavior I can recall them engaging in...dumping those guys just because they find they're related to Upchuck.
>404- "Murder She Snored"
>
The pits. The worst episode I've seen. A dream sequence, adding up to nothing. Still, it does establish that, subconsciously at least, Daria expects everybody to betray her---even Jane---
>504- "Camp Fear"
I liked it, but it's no "I Don't."
My vote: "I Don't," followed by "Camp Fear," "Daria Dance Party," "Cafe Disaffecto," and, of course, "Murder She Snored" dead last.
================================================================================
Subject: Re: The 04's
Name: Sailor Danielle
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 24.29.40.155
Email: janelane25@hotmail.com
Link: http://www.geocities.com/lady_kyra61
Gonna haveta say "Daria Dance Party". I just liked that episode for some reason ^_^
This post has now ended...
~~~~~~~~~~
Homer: You sure that you don't want to change your name to Homer Jr? The kids could call you HoJu.
Bart: Let me get back to you.
'Fanfiction... the last refuge of the Daria/Trent shipper.'
================================================================================
Subject: Re: The 04's
Name: Kara Wild
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 206.170.218.230
Email: kara_wild@hotmail.com
Link: http://www.the-wildone.com/index.html
>104- "Cafe Disaffecto" To avoid an unwanted visit to music camp, Daria volunteers to work for a new coffeehouse after the old cybercafe got trashed. Originally by fundraising, which gives the episodes most hilarious line from Jane.
It had its moments. The best lines to me were:
DARIA: Get in touch with the planet? By sitting in a room full of people you never say a word to?
Or when Daria was listing off names of potential essays to read, and Jane nixed them. I especially liked Quinn's conversation with Danny. It's what first made me think she's not as dumb as she appeared in 101-103.
>204- "I Don't" In the first glimpse we get of the Helen-Rita rivalry, Erin is getting married and their mother is paying for the whole thing, in a futile attempt to upstage her sister, Helen gets Daria and Quinn put in as bridesmaids. One nitpick here Erin is 21, even if we count season 5 as 1 full year instead of a half, Erin should only be 23 in Aunt Nauseam instead she's 24. Back to this ep. we also get the first glimpse of the then "savior" Aunt Amy. Daria has found someone in the family she can finally relate to in some way. We also had a minister with designs on Quinn, a pointless subplot about an LHS bridal show, and Luhrman "Is that your first name or your last?"
That ep could have been better, but it had several priceless moments, and probably the best string of guest characters prior to IIFY?, what with Amy, Rita, Luhrman, and the minister. Plus, it finally gave Helen some background and launched the whole "Amy is a Savior!" myth.
The worst aspect of it was: what the heck was the point of making Paul Meyerson an old friend of Jake's? It didn't add anything to the plot. The same conversations could have taken place even if Paul were meeting Jake for the first time.
Interesting point: this is probably the only "Daria" episode in which Helen flies off the handle while Jake keeps his cool.
>304- "Daria Dance Party" Another first with this episode, the first and only "emsemble" episode that actually carried and exeuted the premise fairly well. Quinn gets roped into coordinating the school dance and lays the job in Jane's lap.
I liked it better with repeated viewings. The first time, I thought it was a waste of a "Daria goes to a dance" plotline, but I suppose this is what a dance *would* be like for Daria... not a nerve-wracking rendez-vous with Trent. It bothered me, though, that so much airtime was given to Kevin and Brittany's lovelife. Like we care.
>404- "Murder She Snored" Yet another first in this episode. The first episode to use a dream sequence as the main plot of an episode(with DTAH we're unsure if this is the case) This episode was total filler. Though the homages to the many cop and mystery shows were amusing, and sometimes had me guessing what they were spoofing next.
Bad, bad, bad. The FC as "Charlie's Angels" was funny, but there was no point to this episode, unlike DTAH, which at least skewered holiday consumption. If they're going to make a fantasy ep, why couldn't they make one that relates to the show, like a parody of "Dawson's Creek"?
>504- "Camp Fear" Daria and Quinn attend a camp reunion, Trent and Jane enjoy some time in the country, Helen and Jake clean the garage, by now you get the problem here, too much crammed into too little time and few if any definitive endings.
It was okay, but could have been much better. I'd have been interested to see a *different* young Daria and Quinn. Like a Quinn that was scared of her own shadow, and hadn't learned to be fashion-obsessed yet. Or a Daria who got pushed around and teased to the point of tears.
Choices:
1. I Don't
2. Daria Dance Party
3. Cafe Disaffecto
4. Camp Fear
5. Murder She Snored
--------------
"But there's something out there. Something stupid."
Daria, "The Lawndale File"
================================================================================
Subject: Re: The 04's
Name: Brother Grimace
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 32.101.99.58
Email: brothergrimace@yahoo.com
>>...and launched the whole "Amy is a Savior!" myth.
In case nobody noticed, this is why, for the most part, you will NEVER see Aunt Amy in one of my fanfics.
>
>
>>304- "Daria Dance Party" Another first with this episode, the first and only "emsemble" episode that actually carried and exeuted the premise fairly well. Quinn gets roped into coordinating the school dance and lays the job in Jane's lap.
>
>I liked it better with repeated viewings. The first time, I thought it was a waste of a "Daria goes to a dance" plotline, but I suppose this is what a dance *would* be like for Daria... not a nerve-wracking rendez-vous with Trent. It bothered me, though, that so much airtime was given to Kevin and Brittany's lovelife. Like we care.
This episode was a BIG inspiration for me while I was plotting out 'IAAR'. The way they dissed Upchuck's cousins because they were related... I think that was when I started to think that Daria needed a few thousand cc's of anti-snob medication, and that Jane might - just might - be better off if she expanded her circle to include more than just Daria. CINCGREEN brought up some interesting points over on SRMB about why Daria doesn't have more friends in the junior or senior classes... might we consider that it's because she's a touch bitchy - or that she's a stealth Heather? (If you don't catch the reference, see the film 'Heathers' Daria's always struck me as a more intelligent and vocal versiono of the Shannor Doherty character - I can just see Jane asking Daria 'Why are you such a bitch?' and Daria replying, 'Because I can be.')
>>504- "Camp Fear" Daria and Quinn attend a camp reunion, Trent and Jane enjoy some time in the country, Helen and Jake clean the garage, by now you get the problem here, too much crammed into too little time and few if any definitive endings.
>
>It was okay, but could have been much better. I'd have been interested to see a *different* young Daria and Quinn. Like a Quinn that was scared of her own shadow, and hadn't learned to be fashion-obsessed yet. Or a Daria who got pushed around and teased to the point of tears.
I agree. The episode would have been much better if it had revolved around everyone and camp-related memories (but not actually with them reliving them actually going to camp; for example, Helen and Jake reliving the memories of what they did when they sent the kids. They remember that they had sex all over the house, played, played some more - and then, got so bored that they THEN cleaned the garage, just to have something to do...)
How about, for a change on a 'different' young Daria - how about the story having been about her not wanting to go back because (in her eyes) she sold out while she was there and was, for about five minutes, Miss Popular Girl because she (insert your own ideas here)?
That could be different...
================================================================================
Subject: Re: The 04's
Name: MikeYamiolkoski
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 65.209.211.158
Email: MikeYamiolkoski@cs.com
>How about, for a change on a 'different' young Daria - how about the story having been about her not wanting to go back because (in her eyes) she sold out while she was there and was, for about five minutes, Miss Popular Girl because she (insert your own ideas here)?
>That could be different...
>
Here's an idea - that didn't happen at Camp Grizzly, obviously, because the show was fairly clear that Daria wasn't even known by her real name in that place. However, there is "Camp Dragonfly" shown in the Daria Diaries. Suppose Daria went to Camp Dragonfly and for some reason was accepted from the get-go, and fell prey to the temptation to deny her true nature in order to pursue even a fleeting moment of popularity?
I'll toss it around in my head, and see if a story comes out of it.
- Mike Yamiolkoski
================================================================================
Subject: Re: The 04's
Name: Dennis
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 24.184.101.243
Email: den@monger.net
>This episode was a BIG inspiration for me while I was plotting out 'IAAR'. The way they dissed Upchuck's cousins because they were related... I think that was when I started to think that Daria needed a few thousand cc's of anti-snob medication, and that Jane might - just might - be better off if she expanded her circle to include more than just Daria. CINCGREEN brought up some interesting points over on SRMB about why Daria doesn't have more friends in the junior or senior classes... might we consider that it's because she's a touch bitchy - or that she's a stealth Heather? (If you don't catch the reference, see the film 'Heathers' Daria's always struck me as a more intelligent and vocal versiono of the Shannor Doherty character - I can just see Jane asking Daria 'Why are you such a bitch?' and Daria replying, 'Because I can be.')
I have to say that your interpretation of this episode was one
of the things I liked LEAST about IAAR. Jane gets on the case
of Daria in your story for blowing off Upchuck's cousins, but
Jane in the episode was just as revolted as Daria. It's not
a fine moment for either of them, but Jane is no better than
Daria. She has no interest in her classmates beyond putting the
dance money to the service of her art.
And I haven't seen Heathers, but I don't think Daria is deliberately
bitchy. It seems to me there are two different impulses in Daria's
personality that lead to her isolation. One: She's too intelligent
for her peer group and they can't relate to her so they ostracize
her. Two: She has a solitary personality and doesn't really like
large gatherings or crowds. Neither makes her "bitchy." Her
only real moments of "bitchiness" in the series are when she
feels her friendship with Jane is threatened, and she's at least
willing to apologize. Nor is she cruel (except to Quinn), preferring
to avoid situations where she will hurt someone's feelings. She
may not like or respect most of her fellows, but she doesn't
abuse them.
-Dennis
================================================================================
Subject: Re: The 04's
Name: Brother Grimace
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 32.101.99.41
Email: brothergrimace@yahoo.com
>>
>I have to say that your interpretation of this episode was one
>of the things I liked LEAST about IAAR. Jane gets on the case
>of Daria in your story for blowing off Upchuck's cousins, but
>Jane in the episode was just as revolted as Daria. It's not
>a fine moment for either of them, but Jane is no better than
>Daria. She has no interest in her classmates beyond putting the
>dance money to the service of her art.
True - to a point, which brings up a very interesting question about the dynamic between Daria and Jane, and maybe this could be something that people could discuss around here.
Who is the leader - Daria, or Jane?
The reason I ask this is because, if you're familiar with my fanfics, that I see Daria as the leader, the 'take-the-lead' in most of their adventures. (This is especially true in 'TSWCOT', where 'the man' tells Daria that she could have stopped 'Operation Ace Of Spades' because all of the members of TFJM recognize that she is, in fact, the conscience of the group.) If you accept that Jane leads, then I can see your point - but if you accept that Daria leads, then Jane's repulsion of Upchuck's cousins is simply peer pressure from Daria. Remember, Jane is FAR more open to approaching guys than Daria, and really, if Daria hadn't been there when that revelation came, I believe that Jane would have at least given them a chance.
To advance this belief/theory, I bring in Episode #312, 'Jane's Addition'. If Daria had stayed close by when Tom was checking Jane out, do you think that Tom would have gotten the time of day from either of them, especially when you factor in the way Daria treated Tom throughout the rest of the episode? Hell, one could argue that NO guy is good enough to hook up with Daria, and that Tom is a fluke!
>
>And I haven't seen Heathers-
Then do so. Watch the Shannen Doherty character's movement through the film.
but I don't think Daria is deliberately
>bitchy. It seems to me there are two different impulses in Daria's
>personality that lead to her isolation. One: She's too intelligent
>for her peer group and they can't relate to her so they ostracize
>her.
I address this directly in 'IAAR'. Kyle Armalin tells her that she's got a place in the group, if she wants it - and it's not a case of them not relating to her, it's her not trying to relate to them! Also, read Ruthless Bunny's essay about the episode 'Boxing Daria': there are many hyperintelligent teens who still can relate to their peers (and vice versa) for the simple face that (a.) it's what the intelligent teen wants, and (b.) they can all find some common ground. Remember, Brittany tried to reach out to Daria on the subject of boyfriends in "IIFY', and I also mention in 'IAAR' that Daria, who writes the stories of Melody Powers, could find additional information (not to mention more common ground) with Brittany, who has long been acknowledged as having definite skills in hand-to-hand combat and small-unit military tactics (remember 'The Daria Hunter'?)
Daria is where she is because she doesn't want to reach out to the other teens for fear of rejection - and that's her problem. She's afraid - and yes, we all get rejected - but she doesn't even seem to try (much) anymore.
Her only real moments of "bitchiness" in the series are when she
>feels her friendship with Jane is threatened, and she's at least
>willing to apologize.
True.
Nor is she cruel (except to Quinn), preferring
>to avoid situations where she will hurt someone's feelings. She
>may not like or respect most of her fellows, but she doesn't
>abuse them.
Look at the comments that she makes! Verbal abuse is WORSE than physical abuse - and she's good at it, because she knows that it keeps people away, thereby making her feel safe because she has rejected them before they get to reject her.
And as for avoiding situations... well, she does walk away, but she always makes sure to send a full spread of quantum torpedoes off the aft launchers at the receeding targets. Never let it be said that Daria doesn't enjoy taking a shot at someone's back - although she much rather prefers to assassinate one's character from the position of eye-to-eye. I can respect that, though.
'You're getting brutal, Sark. brutal and needlessly sadistic.'
'Thank you, Master Control.'
-from the film 'Tron'
>
================================================================================
Subject: Re: The 04's
Name: Dennis
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 24.60.147.22
Email: den@monger.net
>
>
>>>
>>I have to say that your interpretation of this episode was one
>>of the things I liked LEAST about IAAR. Jane gets on the case
>>of Daria in your story for blowing off Upchuck's cousins, but
>>Jane in the episode was just as revolted as Daria. It's not
>>a fine moment for either of them, but Jane is no better than
>>Daria. She has no interest in her classmates beyond putting the
>>dance money to the service of her art.
>
>True - to a point, which brings up a very interesting question about
>the dynamic between Daria and Jane, and maybe this could be
>something that people could discuss around here.
>Who is the leader - Daria, or Jane?
I don't necessarily see that one has to be domininat. In
a group of three or four, there has to be a leader, I think,
but two can take turns based on the situation.
>The reason I ask this is because, if you're familiar with my
>fanfics, that I see Daria as the leader, the 'take-the-lead' in most
>of their adventures. (This is especially true in 'TSWCOT',
>where 'the man' tells Daria that she could have stopped 'Operation
>Ace Of Spades' because all of the members of TFJM recognize that she
>is, in fact, the conscience of the group.) If you accept that Jane
"The conscience" isn't "the leader." Lynn Cullen is indisputably
the leader of tFJM. Daria's her chief advisor. This is made
explicit, even in their relative positions as tLAS advances. Given
Daria's passive nature, I think she'd be less likely to be the
leader in a group situation, but more likely to be the person that
takes over when the leader is out of action because the others respect her judgment. (Even "Depth Takes a Holiday" references
this. Daria doesn't *want* to be in charge. It just sort of
happens, because no one else will or can be.)
As far as Daria and Jane's relationship goes, I suspect that Jane
takes the lead when she is in her element and defers to Daria
at other times, albeit sometimes less than gracefully. ("See
Jane Run.")
>leads, then I can see your point - but if you accept that Daria
>leads, then Jane's repulsion of Upchuck's cousins is simply peer
>pressure from Daria. Remember, Jane is FAR more open to approaching
>guys than Daria, and really, if Daria hadn't been there when that
>revelation came, I believe that Jane would have at least given them
>a chance.
This is the crux of our disagreement. In this one scene (and
not over the course of the whole series; you make some very
valid points), Jane is quite clearly as repulsed as Daria.
There's a clear example of Jane's nascent leadership tendencies.
She knows Daria on her own won't get involved so she takes it on
herself to talk to the brothers (whose names I don't remember), ignoring Daria, but both feel genuine repulsion at the mention of
Upchuck. They both flee at the same time at the same speed.
In fact, given Jane's derision in "The New Kid" ("It's so cute.
You're dating a freak."), one could make the case that DARIA
would have been the less likely to flee, if circumstances had
kept them together a little longer.
>To advance this belief/theory, I bring in Episode #312, 'Jane's
>Addition'. If Daria had stayed close by when Tom was checking Jane
>out, do you think that Tom would have gotten the time of day from
>either of them, especially when you factor in the way Daria treated
>Tom throughout the rest of the episode? Hell, one could argue that
>NO guy is good enough to hook up with Daria, and that Tom is a fluke!
I honestly don't know. But you have to remember that at least
some of Daria's anger is honestly come by. Jane screwed her
over pretty royally. *Jane* wanted to piggyback on Daria's
quality of work to get an A, *Jane* insisted that they go to
the Zon and involve Trent, and *Jane* bailed on Daria, leaving
her in an awkward position, to chase after some guy. Some of
that anger might have very legitimately fed the feeling that
Jane was ditching her for Tom. It doesn't quite excuse Daria
unfolding her leathery bat wings and blasting Jane and Tom with
her laser eyes before flying straight into the sun in the middle
part of the episode, but her actions aren't wholly unreasonable.
>>And I haven't seen Heathers-
>
>Then do so. Watch the Shannen Doherty character's movement through the film.
>
> but I don't think Daria is deliberately
>>bitchy. It seems to me there are two different impulses in Daria's
>>personality that lead to her isolation. One: She's too intelligent
>>for her peer group and they can't relate to her so they ostracize
>>her.
>I address this directly in 'IAAR'. Kyle Armalin tells her that she's
>got a place in the group, if she wants it - and it's not a case of
>them not relating to her, it's her not trying to relate to them!
It's a valid point, though I'd tend to take the opposite view.
Neither group wants anything to do with the other and Daria's
"no one loves me" attitude is used more to fight of Helen, who
refuses to accept that her daughter isn't social, than as any
real signal of disappointment.
>Also, read Ruthless Bunny's essay about the episode 'Boxing Daria':
>there are many hyperintelligent teens who still can relate to their
>peers (and vice versa) for the simple face that (a.) it's what the
>intelligent teen wants, and (b.) they can all find some common
>ground. Remember, Brittany tried to reach out to Daria on the
Many more don't. Or if they do, it's by hiding their intelligence
to achieve common ground. I don't think Daria would be willing
to do this.
(Is there a link for the essay, BTW?)
>subject of boyfriends in "IIFY', and I also mention in 'IAAR' that
>Daria, who writes the stories of Melody Powers, could find
>additional information (not to mention more common ground) with
>Brittany, who has long been acknowledged as having definite skills
>in hand-to-hand combat and small-unit military tactics
>(remember 'The Daria Hunter'?)
It has long been my theory that Brittany likes Daria but does
not wish to be friends with her, partly because her fellow
cheerleaders wouldn't like it (though Jodie would be over the moon
with joy, I'm sure) and partly because she's afraid of Daria's
intellect. What would they talk about? What would they do?
(And just because Ms. M writes violent self-insertion military
stories doesn't mean she knows or cares about tactics; I mean, she's
ten years out of date with the Commies and she showed no interest
in the games in tDH.)
Now, a perfect person would be able to overcome this problem,
but as we all know, OH is far from perfect. Though I do think
that Daria doesn't dislike Brittany as much as she lets on.
There are a couple of times where Daria helps Brittany ("Invitation"
and "Misery Chick" leap to mind), but she likely has the same
problem that Britanny does. There's simply not enough common
ground.
(I also suspect that Kevin is subconsciously atttracted to
Daria, but that's a discussion for another time.)
>Daria is where she is because she doesn't want to reach out to the >other teens for fear of rejection - and that's her problem. She's
>afraid - and yes, we all get rejected - but she doesn't even seem to
>try (much) anymore.
No. You could say, "Daria remains where she is because she
doesn't want to reach out..." or "Daria's strategy to deal
with the rejection of her fellows from a very young age is
self-defeating..." as Jodie tells her in "Gifted," but saying,
"she is where she is solely because of her own actions," is
flat-out wrong.
Being ignored by her classmates and shown up by Quinn goes all
the way back to her earliest childhood. It's not something she
made up upon arriving at Lawndale (nor is Quinn's relentless
quest for popularity, which likely springs from getting shown
up by Daria), and to ignore that Daria has solid reasons for
seeing the world the way she does presents a very unbalanced
view of the character.
>Her only real moments of "bitchiness" in the series are when she
>>feels her friendship with Jane is threatened, and she's at least
>>willing to apologize.
>
>True.
> Nor is she cruel (except to Quinn), preferring
>>to avoid situations where she will hurt someone's feelings. She
>>may not like or respect most of her fellows, but she doesn't
>>abuse them.
>Look at the comments that she makes! Verbal abuse is WORSE than
>physical abuse - and she's good at it, because she knows that it
>keeps people away, thereby making her feel safe because she has
>rejected them before they get to reject her.
True, with one caveat. Most of her defenses simply involve
not dealing with people. She doesn't seek them out to berate
them. She just doesn't involve herself with them. Which goes
back to my statement above. She's taken crap for her entire
school career, so she's not interested in trying.
When someone ignores the warning signals (Upchuck, anyone?) she
blasts away, but getting a muzzleful of Daria insults usually
requires a great deal of effort.
>And as for avoiding situations... well, she does walk away, but she
>always makes sure to send a full spread of quantum torpedoes off the
>aft launchers at the receeding targets. Never let it be said that
>Daria doesn't enjoy taking a shot at someone's back - although she
>much rather prefers to assassinate one's character from the position
>of eye-to-eye. I can respect that, though.
Well, whose character has she assassinated eye-to-eye? Most
of her commentary about Kevin and Brittany is a) directed to
Jane, and b) not something they'd hear or care about. Kevin
in his thoughtlessness is far crueler to Daria than Daria is
to him. Look at "Daria Dace Party." Kevin asks Daria for
advice, and Daria gives him the advice, pausing to insult him
slightly (aided and abetted by Jane). Kevin then blows her off,
imagining that she hit on him. Who is worse?
Daria, for the most part, goes out of her way NOT to be cruel to
Jodie, and it is Daria, not Jane, who knows the right thing
to say to Andrea in "Mart of Darkness." Contrast this with
the petty power games and Kevin and Brittany's relationship,
the even pettier ones in Quinn and Sandi's friendship, and
the pack mentality of the cheerleaders and football players.
Who is worse?
Yeah, she rips on Upchuck, but everyone rips on Upchuck. And
no one said OH was perfect. And her actions in "Jane's
Addition" and "See Jane Run" are, in both cases, in response
to more than one force on her. It's not *just* that Jane's
bailed on her for a guy.
Yours is a valid interpretation of Daria's character. It's one
I happen to disagree with, especially that scene in "Daria
Dance Party," since it seems to indicate that Jane doesn't
share many of Daria's flaws, when in fact she does.
-Dennis
================================================================================
Subject: Re: The 04's
Name: Wraith
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 64.244.120.164
Email: wraith@ssw.net
Link: http://www.ssw.net/ssw/fansub/essays/ms/ruthlessbunny/living_in_a_box.htm
>>Also, read Ruthless Bunny's essay about the episode 'Boxing Daria':
>>there are many hyperintelligent teens who still can relate to their
>>peers (and vice versa) for the simple face that (a.) it's what the
>>intelligent teen wants, and (b.) they can all find some common
>>ground. Remember, Brittany tried to reach out to Daria on the
>
>Many more don't. Or if they do, it's by hiding their intelligence
>to achieve common ground. I don't think Daria would be willing
>to do this.
>
>(Is there a link for the essay, BTW?)
See the link.
Wraith
Please don't squeeze the Shaman
================================================================================
Subject: Re: The 04's
Name: Dennis
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 24.60.147.22
Email: den@monger.net
>>>Also, read Ruthless Bunny's essay about the episode 'Boxing Daria':
>>>there are many hyperintelligent teens who still can relate to their
>>>peers (and vice versa) for the simple face that (a.) it's what the
>>>intelligent teen wants, and (b.) they can all find some common
>>>ground. Remember, Brittany tried to reach out to Daria on the
>>
>>Many more don't. Or if they do, it's by hiding their intelligence
>>to achieve common ground. I don't think Daria would be willing
>>to do this.
>>
>>(Is there a link for the essay, BTW?)
>
>See the link.
Well, having read it, I must say that the essay makes some excellent
points but comes off as snotty and condescending. This might be
because the author falls into an "either/or" trap: Either you
are a well-rounded human being or you sit in your room and whinge.
There's a whole range of in between, which is where I think most
people, including Daria (and myself), fall.
This might be because the author is reacting to people belittling
"Boxing Daria" as Daria selling out. This seems to be the
context the essay is coming from, but since I arrived well after
"Boxing Daria" aired, I can't speak to whether it is fair in that
context or not. I would, however, point out that while many
people who feel alienated are in some measure responsible for
their alienation (a point made nicely by "Through a Lens Darkly"),
there are usually solid external reasons at the root of those
feelings.
-Dennis
================================================================================
Subject: Finally - someone who doesn't make it personal!
Name: Brother Grimace
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 32.101.99.113
Email: brothergrimace@yahoo.com
>Thanks, old boy. You're one of the few souls out here who can (a.) debate merits of the show and its fandom intelligently without getting personal, (b.) actually put down your thoughts without snarling (even if you did, we all do), and (c.) make me go back to look up what you've brought forth, so that I won't make the same incorect assumptions again (hopefully).
Thou art a noble adversary. I look forward to crossing swords with you again, someday.
'You're getting brutal, Sark. Brutal and needlessly sadistic.'
'Thank you, Master Control.'
-from the film 'Tron'
================================================================================
Subject: Re: Finally - someone who doesn't make it personal
Name: Dennis
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 24.60.147.22
Email: den@monger.net
>
>
>>Thanks, old boy. You're one of the few souls out here who can (a.) debate merits of the show and its fandom intelligently without getting personal, (b.) actually put down your thoughts without snarling (even if you did, we all do), and (c.) make me go back to look up what you've brought forth, so that I won't make the same incorect assumptions again (hopefully).
Gee... I don't know what to say.
Other than to say that I merely rose to the level of discourse
previously established by you.
>Thou art a noble adversary. I look forward to crossing swords with you again, someday.
Same here.
-Dennis
================================================================================
Subject: Re: The 04's
Name: A.J.
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 209.240.222.132
Email: AJ1021@webtv.net
>
>>104- "Cafe Disaffecto" To avoid an unwanted visit to music camp, Daria volunteers to work for a new coffeehouse after the old cybercafe got trashed. Originally by fundraising, which gives the episodes most hilarious line from Jane.
>
>It had its moments. The best lines to me were:
>
>DARIA: Get in touch with the planet? By sitting in a room full of people you never say a word to?
That's the only thing about basically doing these off the top of my head, you're bound to miss a few of these.
One other, it is/was a sig by our very own webmaster Rich from when I used to frequent alt.tv.daria:
O'Neill: Let's pledge to make Daria's dream a reality!
Daria: You mean the one where people walking down the street burst into flames?
O'Neill: The coffeehouse!
>>204- "I Don't" In the first glimpse we get of the Helen-Rita rivalry, Erin is getting married and their mother is paying for the whole thing, in a futile attempt to upstage her sister, Helen gets Daria and Quinn put in as bridesmaids. One nitpick here Erin is 21, even if we count season 5 as 1 full year instead of a half, Erin should only be 23 in Aunt Nauseam instead she's 24. Back to this ep. we also get the first glimpse of the then "savior" Aunt Amy. Daria has found someone in the family she can finally relate to in some way. We also had a minister with designs on Quinn, a pointless subplot about an LHS bridal show, and Luhrman "Is that your first name or your last?"
>
>That ep could have been better, but it had several priceless moments, and probably the best string of guest characters prior to IIFY?, what with Amy, Rita, Luhrman, and the minister. Plus, it finally gave Helen some background and launched the whole "Amy is a Savior!" myth.
>
>The worst aspect of it was: what the heck was the point of making Paul Meyerson an old friend of Jake's? It didn't add anything to the plot. The same conversations could have taken place even if Paul were meeting Jake for the first time.
I think it set up one joke, a lame one at that, after Jake's comment "She sure knows how to pick 'em", after meeting him Daria goes: "Dad? What was that about knowing how to pick 'em?" to make Jake uncomfortable.
>Interesting point: this is probably the only "Daria" episode in which Helen flies off the handle while Jake keeps his cool.
You could make a case for "Psycho Therapy", where Helen is all worked up over the trip, while Jake is mellowing out with his milk.
A.J.
---------------------------------------------
Tom/Jake/Jeffy: Whoomp! There it is!, Whoomp! There it is!, Whoomp! There it is!...
---------------------------------------------
================================================================================
Subject: Re: The 04's
Name: Justin Smith
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 64.164.172.142
Email: dariafan@jsmith.nu
>104- "Cafe Disaffecto" To avoid an unwanted visit to music camp, Daria volunteers to work for a new coffeehouse after the old cybercafe got trashed. Originally by fundraising, which gives the episodes most hilarious line from Jane.
I liked. It had some great lines, and Daria got to manipulate the parents.
>204- "I Don't" In the first glimpse we get of the Helen-Rita rivalry, Erin is getting married and their mother is paying for the whole thing, in a futile attempt to upstage her sister, Helen gets Daria and Quinn put in as bridesmaids. One nitpick here Erin is 21,
I liked this one, too. As said by others, introducing Aunt Amy was great. I wish they did more episodes with the Daria-Amy interaction. We don't know if Amy is really 'well adjusted' now or not. If so, she'd make a great role model/mentor for Daria (a la TaLD). I also agree: the LHS Bridal Show sucked.
>304- "Daria Dance Party" Another first with this episode, the first and only "emsemble" episode that actually carried and exeuted the premise fairly well. Quinn gets roped into coordinating the school
[...snip...]
>mates for life". Daria and Jane also nearly find their one true loves, except that they're the cousins of Upchuck. In a rare turn to the dark side for our heroines, they dismiss them on the basis of name alone, just as Quinn or any other "popular" person would've done, without a second thought. One of the only times I was disappointed in them.
I'm sure others have thrashed this about before, but I must say, in Daria's and Jane's defense, that Brett *DID* do the "Rowrrr" thing a la Upchuck BEFORE OHs ditched them. And just before that, when Daria asked whether they were related to Upchuck, her face did not assume an expression of shock/horror/revulsion, and her voice was pretty normal, so I don't think she was put off at that point. I *think* that, had Brett not *demonstrated* evidence of "the dreaded Ruttheimer gene," OHs would have given them the benefit of the doubt, Upchuck's presence at the diner not withstanding.
>404- "Murder She Snored" Yet another first in this episode. The first episode to use a dream sequence as the main plot of an episode(with DTAH we're unsure if this is the case) This episode was total filler. Though the homages to the many cop and mystery shows were amusing, and sometimes had me guessing what they were spoofing next.
I've only seen this episode twice, both times well more than a year ago, so I really don't have any comment other than *it's a cartoon*!!! Don't take it too seriously. (This is a general comment, not specifically to you, AJ.)
>504- "Camp Fear" Daria and Quinn attend a camp reunion, Trent and Jane enjoy some time in the country, Helen and Jake clean the garage, by now you get the problem here, too much crammed into too little time and few if any definitive endings.
A good episode. Daria gets handed her second helping of crow for the season when Amelia takes the stage. I agree that the writers tried to put too much into too short a time.
In the end, I'd go with: Cafe Disaffecto, I Don't, Daria Dance Party, Camp Fear, and Murder She Snored.
================================================================================
Subject: Re: The 04's
Name: TeekiJane
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 136.176.200.202
Email: teekijane@excite.com
>
>You know the drill(hopefully) by now, so without further adieu.....
>
>104- "Cafe Disaffecto"
O'Neill: Let's all pledge to make Daria's dream a reality.
Daria: You mean the one where people walking down the street burst into flames?
LOVE it.
>
>204- "I Don't"
>One nitpick here Erin is 21, even if we count season 5 as 1 full year instead of a half, Erin should only be 23 in Aunt Nauseam instead she's 24.
Perhaps she was nearly 22, so, say, 2 years and 3 months later, she could be 24? Just an idea.
I too thought those bridesmaids were incredibly dumb. I liked Luhrman but thought he was pretty much wasted.
>
>304- "Daria Dance Party"
I liked this one. I didn't expect Daria to attend the dance, but I could understand, if Jane decorated it. None of the dances I went to was ever as well decorated as that one.
>
>404- "Murder She Snored"
Not a favorite. Probably because I didn't get most of the references to other shows, since I was never a detective show fan. I did think the Fashion Club was good as Upchuck's Angels. However, I didn't hate it. There have only been two episodes I really disliked. Which brings me to...
>504- "Camp Fear"
My second-least favorite episode (beaten only by Antisocial Climbers.)I thought the side plot with Jane and Trent was really wasted, and the camp scenes were sort of stupid.
>My choice- 104- Cafe Disaffecto
>
Ditto.
>Followed by "I Don't, Daria Dance Party, Camp Fear, and Murder She Snored.
>
>Good night, all!
>
>A.J.
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------------
>Tom/Jake/Jeffy: Whoomp! There it is!, Whoomp! There it is!, Whoomp! There it is!...
>---------------------------------------------
>
I could be doing something productive now, but why would I want to do that?
"I'm going to hunt that boy down and do dirty things to him. But first, some ice cream." --Zee (zeesayssmeow@yahoo.com)
================================================================================
Subject: Re: The 04's
Name: Steven Galloway
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 205.188.198.176
Email: SGall23241@aol.com
>104- "Cafe Disaffecto" To avoid an unwanted visit to music camp, Daria volunteers to work for a new coffeehouse after the old cybercafe got trashed. Originally by fundraising, which gives the episodes most hilarious line from Jane.
I loved the line where Jane shoots down a dreamy O'Neill when he basically tells her about computers bringing the community together, and the way she said "No". It was a "Daria-type" of "No"--simple, monotonic, and blunt.
>204- "I Don't" In the first glimpse we get of the Helen-Rita rivalry, Erin is getting married and their mother is paying for the whole thing, in a futile attempt to upstage her sister, Helen gets Daria and Quinn put in as bridesmaids. One nitpick here Erin is 21, even if we count season 5 as 1 full year instead of a half, Erin should only be 23 in Aunt Nauseam instead she's 24. Back to this ep. we also get the first glimpse of the then "savior" Aunt Amy. Daria has found someone in the family she can finally relate to in some way. We also had a minister with designs on Quinn, a pointless subplot about an LHS bridal show, and Luhrman "Is that your first name or your last?"
>
>We get our first deep look into the Barksdale family here, and little else but filler. So-so episode.
Perhaps the best Mack & Kevin exchange line I've heard:
MACK: Tell me, Kevin: When you hear yourself talk, does it make sense to YOU?
KEVIN (Oblivious, of course, stupid grin) Sometimes!
>
>304- "Daria Dance Party" Another first with this episode, the first and only "emsemble" episode that actually carried and exeuted the premise fairly well. Quinn gets roped into coordinating the school dance and lays the job in Jane's lap. Meanwhile, to compete Sandi hosts her own party, the same night as the dance, which turns out to be a total flop, while the job Jane did with the dance is getting rave reviews, our little Quinn takes all the credit. We also get a rare highlight from our friends Kevin and Brittany, with their little spat that brings about this line from Daria: "Forget it, that species mates for life". Daria and Jane also nearly find their one true loves, except that they're the cousins of Upchuck. In a rare turn to the dark side for our heroines, they dismiss them on the basis of name alone, just as Quinn or any other "popular" person would've done, without a second thought. One of the only times I was disappointed in them.
>Overall this works great for an ensemble episode, which equals an averaage episode overall.
The best "ensemble" ep to me. Every plot worked very well, both separately and intermeshed. Hm--I never thought about Daria and Jane putting on "la-dee-daishness" when they rejected Upchuck's cousins. I mean, I couldn't blame them for doing that, myself...
>
>404- "Murder She Snored" Yet another first in this episode. The first episode to use a dream sequence as the main plot of an episode(with DTAH we're unsure if this is the case) This episode was total filler. Though the homages to the many cop and mystery shows were amusing, and sometimes had me guessing what they were spoofing next.
>
>The dream is of Kevin's murder, something some of us would like to see for real, and Daria is the main suspect, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, and must prove her innocence through a variety of various spoofs of mystery episodes.
>
>Another episode you seemed to either like or hate, I thought this ep was okay, not great, but okay.
That was the best thing about this ep: Kevin's death in the dream. DeMartino choking him for real was a nice touch, too. ;D
>
>504- "Camp Fear" Daria and Quinn attend a camp reunion, Trent and Jane enjoy some time in the country, Helen and Jake clean the garage, by now you get the problem here, too much crammed into too little time and few if any definitive endings.
Yawn. Best scene here was when a young Daria was forced to swim in the lake when pulled in. Somebody bit my head off when I posted this after the ep showed, but I stand by my belief.
>
>My choice- 104- Cafe Disaffecto
>
>Followed by "I Don't, Daria Dance Party, Camp Fear, and Murder She Snored.
Ditto, ditto, and ditto. We're on the same wavelength, here! Wierd.
>
>Good night, all!
Who's this "All" person? ;D Thanks.
================================================================================
Subject: Re: The 04's
Name: renfield1969
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 141.157.92.39
Email: entropysedge@earthlink.net
Link: http://www.entropysedge.net
Tough call vetween 104 & 204, but...
I'd have to say, "I Don't, Cafe Disaffecto, Daria Dance Party, Camp Fear and MSN.
-Renfield
================================================================================
Subject: Re: The 04's
Name: Dennis
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 24.184.101.243
Email: den@monger.net
>
>You know the drill(hopefully) by now, so without further adieu.....
>
>104- "Cafe Disaffecto" To avoid an unwanted visit to music camp, Daria volunteers to work for a new coffeehouse after the old cybercafe got trashed. Originally by fundraising, which gives the episodes most hilarious line from Jane.
>
>Jane: (regarding Mrs Johansen) She has no family, she ate them.
I remember liking "Cafe Disaffecto" when I first saw it,
but I like it somewhat less now. There's not as much to
it as I would like, but it's still a fairly funny and
entertaining ep. Mrs. Johansen's initial appearance is
used to great comic effect, which is something that cannot
be said of many of her returns. And we learn that Daria has
morals. Many of her fellows (Jane?) would have sold Mrs. J.
the chocolate and put her impending death out of their minds.
>204- "I Don't" In the first glimpse we get of the Helen-Rita rivalry, Erin is getting married and their mother is paying for the whole thing, in a futile attempt to upstage her sister, Helen gets Daria and Quinn put in as bridesmaids. One nitpick here Erin is 21, even if we count season 5 as 1 full year instead of a half, Erin should only be 23 in Aunt Nauseam instead she's 24. Back to this ep. we also get the first glimpse of the then "savior" Aunt Amy. Daria has found someone in the family she can finally relate to in some way. We also had a minister with designs on Quinn, a pointless subplot about an LHS bridal show, and Luhrman "Is that your first name or your last?"
I didn't like the "bridesmaid dress" running joke. Based on
"Quinn the Brain" there's no reason Daria wouldn't look good
in her dress. I did like the fitting scene, though.
Jane: Oh, Scarlett, you grow lovelier by the day.
Daria: I will kill you. And bury your body in this dress.
As for the Famous Aunt, put me firmly in the "Amy rocks!"
category. Quinn and the minister were very funny, but
the overlooked joy in the episode is Jake. From his
very first line, "Your cousin Erin's getting married. You
know there'll be hell to pay."--setting the tone for the
episode--to the last, "Don't talk son, you're shaking the
light," Jake steals the show.
Resulting in a very funny and revealing episode.
As for Erin's age, it depends on the time of year. If I Don't
was early spring and AN was late spring two years later, and
Erin had April birthday, she could have turned 22 right
after her wedding and 24 right before her near divorce.
Or Helen could have gotten her age wrong in one of the
eps.
>304- "Daria Dance Party" Another first with this episode, the first and only "emsemble" episode that actually carried and exeuted the premise fairly well. Quinn gets roped into coordinating the school dance and lays the job in Jane's lap. Meanwhile, to compete Sandi hosts her own party, the same night as the dance, which turns out to be a total flop, while the job Jane did with the dance is getting rave reviews, our little Quinn takes all the credit. We also get a rare highlight from our friends Kevin and Brittany, with their little spat that brings about this line from Daria: "Forget it, that species mates for life". Daria and Jane also nearly find their one true loves, except that they're the cousins of Upchuck. In a rare turn to the dark side for our heroines, they dismiss them on the basis of name alone, just as Quinn or any other "popular" person would've done, without a second thought. One of the only times I was disappointed in them.
I think you summed up things pretty well. Almost all the
characters were really well used and things moved along really
well. Many good lines.
After Kevin blows off what he thinks is a pass from Daria,
Jane: BUT WHAT ABOUT THE BABY!
***
Jane: A thousand bucks can buy a lot of art supplies.
Daria: But what about our dancing classmates.
Jane (taking out a twenty): Put this aside for a bag of chips and a boom box.
Quinn and Sandi's confrontation was classic.
>Overall this works great for an ensemble episode, which equals an averaage episode overall.
I'd put this as well above average. One of the few times the whole
ensemble was used well.
>404- "Murder She Snored" Yet another first in this episode. The first episode to use a dream sequence as the main plot of an episode(with DTAH we're unsure if this is the case) This episode was total filler. Though the homages to the many cop and mystery shows were amusing, and sometimes had me guessing what they were spoofing next.
The spoofs were entertaining, but mildly so. I liked Jake
and Helen as cops.
Helen: Sorry, honey, I mean, you low life weasel!
Helen: Jake! Try to at least ACT like the law on these streets.
The fashion club as Upchuck's Angels was very funny, and the
ending is a nice window into Daria's worldview.
>Another episode you seemed to either like or hate, I thought this ep >was okay, not great, but okay.
Somewhat amusing. Shines when considered next to the episode
before it (A Tree Grows in Lawndale) and the episode after it
(The F word).
>504- "Camp Fear" Daria and Quinn attend a camp reunion, Trent and Jane enjoy some time in the country, Helen and Jake clean the garage, by now you get the problem here, too much crammed into too little time and few if any definitive endings.
The Spiral showed up in CF, and they're always a welcome presence.
Most of the camp stuff was pretty dumb. Quinn's proto-fashion-club
was lame, and the Daria/Amelia plot didn't really work for me.
Trent and Jane's adventures were at least amusing, and I liked
the song Trent came up with in the Tank on the way home.
Daria had the best line, though:
Daria: Something tells me the Spiral lives.
Trent: Oh yeah. The fire is back.
Daria: You want a Tums for that?
>My choice- 104- Cafe Disaffecto
Probably "Daria Dance Party," then "I Don't" and "Cafe
Disaffecto" "Murder She Snored" and "Camp Fear."
-Dennis
================================================================================
Subject: Re: The 04's
Name: Cimorene
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 216.23.19.20
Email: cimorene@mydaria.zzn.com
Link: http://www.angelfire.com/pq/renifererop
I've *almost* seen all of these - missed Daria Dance party (well, the end of it) due to bad tape programming. Don't really remember what happened that well.
Best - Cafe Disaffecto. Took me forever to get it on tape. Go Sarcastathons!
Second Place - I Don't. (My taped copy of this has a commercial for Bridalrama, of all things!)
Worst - either Camp Fear or Murder She Snored, but they're both tolerable...
>You know the drill(hopefully) by now, so without further adieu.....
>
>104- "Cafe Disaffecto" To avoid an unwanted visit to music camp, Daria volunteers to work for a new coffeehouse after the old cybercafe got trashed. Originally by fundraising, which gives the episodes most hilarious line from Jane.
>
>Jane: (regarding Mrs Johansen) She has no family, she ate them.
>
>one other:
>
>Jane: We should be doing something right now, I'm sure of it.
>
>Daria: Yeah, I think you're right.
>
><Jane snaps picture>
>
>Some of the other efforts at fundraising provided some humorous moments as well. Kevin and Brittany's visit to Mr DeMartino's home was done well, but how can the school make money selling 12 albums for a penny? Even Quinn got in on the act, using her charms to seduce people into buying long distance phone cards.
>
>Other moments include Andrea's first lines, K+B's attempts at Shakespeare. Also it's well known Daria is intelligent, but this is the first episode where her writing talents are shown for us to see and she didn't disappoint, and neither did this episode.
>
>204- "I Don't" In the first glimpse we get of the Helen-Rita rivalry, Erin is getting married and their mother is paying for the whole thing, in a futile attempt to upstage her sister, Helen gets Daria and Quinn put in as bridesmaids. One nitpick here Erin is 21, even if we count season 5 as 1 full year instead of a half, Erin should only be 23 in Aunt Nauseam instead she's 24. Back to this ep. we also get the first glimpse of the then "savior" Aunt Amy. Daria has found someone in the family she can finally relate to in some way. We also had a minister with designs on Quinn, a pointless subplot about an LHS bridal show, and Luhrman "Is that your first name or your last?"
>
>We get our first deep look into the Barksdale family here, and little else but filler. So-so episode.
>
>304- "Daria Dance Party" Another first with this episode, the first and only "emsemble" episode that actually carried and exeuted the premise fairly well. Quinn gets roped into coordinating the school dance and lays the job in Jane's lap. Meanwhile, to compete Sandi hosts her own party, the same night as the dance, which turns out to be a total flop, while the job Jane did with the dance is getting rave reviews, our little Quinn takes all the credit. We also get a rare highlight from our friends Kevin and Brittany, with their little spat that brings about this line from Daria: "Forget it, that species mates for life". Daria and Jane also nearly find their one true loves, except that they're the cousins of Upchuck. In a rare turn to the dark side for our heroines, they dismiss them on the basis of name alone, just as Quinn or any other "popular" person would've done, without a second thought. One of the only times I was disappointed in them.
>Overall this works great for an ensemble episode, which equals an averaage episode overall.
>
>404- "Murder She Snored" Yet another first in this episode. The first episode to use a dream sequence as the main plot of an episode(with DTAH we're unsure if this is the case) This episode was total filler. Though the homages to the many cop and mystery shows were amusing, and sometimes had me guessing what they were spoofing next.
>
>The dream is of Kevin's murder, something some of us would like to see for real, and Daria is the main suspect, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, and must prove her innocence through a variety of various spoofs of mystery episodes.
>
>Another episode you seemed to either like or hate, I thought this ep was okay, not great, but okay.
>
>504- "Camp Fear" Daria and Quinn attend a camp reunion, Trent and Jane enjoy some time in the country, Helen and Jake clean the garage, by now you get the problem here, too much crammed into too little time and few if any definitive endings.
>
>My choice- 104- Cafe Disaffecto
>
>Followed by "I Don't, Daria Dance Party, Camp Fear, and Murder She Snored.
>
>Good night, all!
>
>A.J.
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------------
>Tom/Jake/Jeffy: Whoomp! There it is!, Whoomp! There it is!, Whoomp! There it is!...
>---------------------------------------------
>
================================================================================
Subject: Re: The 04's
Name: A.J.
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 209.240.222.132
Email: AJ1021@webtv.net
We've got a close one here so far get your votes in, they may make a difference.
If you've missed any and want to pick your favorite, you can vote anytime throughout this for any episode we've already covered. Seeing as we're at the 04's you can't jump ahead and vote for your favorite of the 13's until the 13's are posted. This will end 3 days after I've started the vote on the 13's, the final votes will be tallied, and then on to phase 2. See the "Daria by numbers" thread for what my plan is for this by the link to Um's results page.
A.J.
---------------------------------------------
Tom/Jake/Jeffy: Whoomp! There it is!, Whoomp! There it is!, Whoomp! There it is!...
---------------------------------------------
================================================================================
Subject: Um's instant three-word reviews
Name: um
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 205.188.195.58
Email: umeruh0000@aol.com
Link: ./././
Time is the tyrant.
104- "Cafe Disaffecto" - Classic monologue rocks.
204- "I Don't" - Definately had moments.
304- "Daria Dance Party" - Good Pollack jokes.
404- "Murder She Snored" - Sucks, sucks, sucks.
504- "Camp Fear" - Sadly missed opportunity.
Winner: Cafe Disaffecto. Enjoyable: I Don't, Daria Dance Party. Bearable, Just: Camp fear. Awful: Murder, she snored.
Um
-
DVDaria! The Web's finest "exquisitely worded angry petition"! www.geocities.com/DVDaria
================================================================================
Subject: Running total
Name: um
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 205.188.195.58
Email: umeruh0000@aol.com
Link: ./././
104- "Cafe Disaffecto" - A. J., D. T. Dey, Justin Smith, TeekiJane, Steven Galloway, Cimorene, Um = 7
204- "I Don't" - MikeYamiolkoski, Robert Nowall, Kara Wild, renfield1969 = 4
304- "Daria Dance Party" - Sailor Danielle, renfield1969 = 2
404- "Murder She Snored" = 0
504- "Camp Fear" = 0
Forgot to say: Brother Grimace
Um
-
DVDaria! The Web's finest "exquisitely worded angry petition"! www.geocities.com/DVDaria
================================================================================
Subject: About "Daria by Numbers"
Name: D. T. Dey
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 152.163.194.188
Email: ddey65@yahoo.com
>
>
>I clicked on the link to Martin's transcript of "Fat Like Me," and got "The Invitation," instead. I got the invitation on it's own clickable link too, but I thought Fat Like Me would be linked to it's own transcript. Are you going to fix that soon?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------
>My boots send a clear message: "I can kick you."
>---Daria Morgendorffer in an interview with
>Women’s Wear Daily, June 1998.
>---------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------
My boots send a clear message: "I can kick you."
---Daria Morgendorffer in an interview with
Women’s Wear Daily, June 1998.
---------------------------------------------------
================================================================================
Subject: Re: About "Daria by Numbers"
Name: um
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 63.212.146.50
Email: umeruh0000@aol.com
Link: http://www.geocities.com/dvdaria
>
>
>>
>>
>>I clicked on the link to Martin's transcript of "Fat Like Me," and got "The Invitation," instead. I got the invitation on it's own clickable link too, but I thought Fat Like Me would be linked to it's own transcript. Are you going to fix that soon?
>>
Yes, thanks...as soon as AOL lets me.
Um
-
DVDaria! The Web's finest "exquisitely worded angry petition"! www.geocities.com/DVDaria
================================================================================
Subject: Re: The 04's
Name: wackydeth
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 12.90.5.218
Email: itsclark@aworldnet.att.net
>You know the drill(hopefully) by now, so without further adieu.....
I'll rank them in this order:
#1 (winner) = "I Don't"
The long series of humiliations make Daria seem particularly worth rooting for. Finding a "kindred spirit" in Aunt Amy is a fitting reward for her.
#2 = "Murder She Snored"
Yeah, I know. But I laughed almost as hard through this one as any other single episode I can name. No message, no meaning, just a great series of tightly scripted gags.
#3 = "Cafe Disaffecto"
I'd have ranked this #2 were it not for the strange, unconvincing results of Daria's essay. Daria takes the role of some sort of master manipulator -- a theme that appears in the B&W pilot episode, here, and almost nowhere subsequent (except when she is extorting money from Helen or pulling some minor trickery on Quinn). Still a great episode. Just... weird.
#4 = "Daria Dance Party"
Much better than the title suggests. Even so, I can't remember this one too clearly (except for the Ruttheimer kids) which suggests it didn't really grab me. So I'll rank it number 4.
#5 (loser) = "Camp Fear"
This might have seemed better in an earlier season. By this time, the sub-text of Daria alienating a friend had been done often enough to take the edge off this episode. Daria also comes off a bit too sour and unwitty.
I'm done.
================================================================================
Subject: Re: The 04's
Name: Shoebleu
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 172.166.255.38
Email: shoebleunmy@aol.com
Link: http://www.umich.edu/~nmy/daria/
Chalk up another vote for Cafe Disaffecto -- Melody Powers rocks! (Daria Dance Party is a close second, just because it has so much Jane.)
"i know i can't be the only whatever-i-am in the room"
================================================================================
Subject: OK, I'm votin' now :)
Name: Devilkitty
Date: Dec-31-1969 7:00pm
IP: 65.186.160.141
Email: urizen@telocity.com
Link: http://www.devilkitty.org/pindex.html
I guess I should send in my votes:
04s
--
104: Cafe Disaffecto. "I'm here. But where are you?"
304: Daria Dance Party. I couldn't stop thinking of the "Janet Reno's Dance Party" skit on SNL. I *was* pissed about how the blew off Brad and Brett.
404: Murder, She Snored. Jane as Higgins was *cool*.
204: I Don't. The bridesmaid's dress joke got old. The jewelry salesman at the bridal expo made the ep for me.
504: Camp Fear. Is it me, or did OH turn into more of a bitch than usual in S5?
================================================================================
Subj: 04 - 07 episodes
Date: 01/07/02 6:44:59 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: Belle Book
To: Umeruh0000
Here's the rest of the episodes.
My pick for the 04's? #304, "Daria's Dance Party". True, it didn't feature Daria or Jane prominently, but it was one of the best ensemble episodes (if not the best one) out there. One of the most interesting things I saw was a flashback to the young Sandi where her mother tells her that volunteering means "Use me". Maybe it's no wonder that Sandi tries to use others -- so she can't be used herself.
Next on my list would be #204, "I Don't". The first episode with Aunts Amy & Rita makes this episode a good one. And I wonder if Quinn really understood that the minister was trying to come on to her? I know I figured it out pretty quickly.
Third is "Cafe Disaffecto". The first episode where Daria reads a Melody Powers story, and the first appearance of the lady who loves chocolate. A good episode.
Right behind it is "Murder, She Snored". A neat dream episode, where we get to see Daria's opinions of at least some of her fellow schoolmates. Though I wonder why she'd have Jane be one of the murderers in her dream sequence.
Rounding out the episodes is "Camp Fear". Could've shown a bit more about Daria and Quinn's camping experience than it did. A rather weak episode, overall.